Preparing a perfect Potted Panto: Interview with Daniel Clarkson and Jefferson Turner

Written by: Kat Mokrynski
Published: Thursday 12th September 2024

"That's an important thing with parody - it has to come from a place of love."

Potted Panto returns to Wilton's Music Hall this winter, bringing with it seven pantomimes in eighty minutes. The show for all ages celebrates the beautiful British tradition of pantomime while still finding ways to poke fun at it.

Here we discuss with creators Daniel Clarkson and Jefferson Turner how they came up with Potted Panto, how they chose which stories to parody, what they think makes pantomimes so special, and more.

So starting with a general question, how did you both first get started in the world of comedy?

Jefferson: Well, I'd always liked comedy! I went off to university to study acting and comedy very much continued to appeal to me. I tried to be in a couple of straight plays straight out of university, and it was fine! I enjoyed it but I never got as much joy as I did doing funny stuff. And then when I met Dan in 2004, I realised that the place I slot in is the straight man in comedy. Dan will say it's because I couldn't get any laughs and I just accepted it.

[Laughs] It works! Dan and I have been working together for 20-odd years now, so most of the comedy I've done has been with him.

Daniel: I'm glad you call that comedy - that's really generous! I was the same. I went to drama school and trained to be a real life actor, but was always drawn to comedy because I think I've just got a really big ego! The thing about comedy is you know the audience is enjoying it throughout as they're laughing. I remember doing Bertolt Brecht's Fear and Misery of the Third Reich, which is a lovely piece about the rise of the Nazis. We got to the end of it and I was like, "Are the audience still with us?" There was nothing! And that's something you shouldn't try to play for laughs... as I did. That was when my tutors were like, "You might be nearer comedy because you really do need that audience clarification that you're doing a good job."

I remember working with a director years ago, where she said, "If you can do comedy, you can do anything - the hardest thing is to make people laugh." I think she regretted her decision, putting a bunch of comedians into this very serious drama! Although, you can never win an Oscar. That's the only thing you can't do if you do comedy.

Jefferson: Is that the only thing stopping you?

Daniel: That's the only thing!

And what made you want to create Potted Panto?

Daniel: I think it was our British love of pantomime. Any actor in Britain has played panto throughout Christmas - it's your bread and butter. Jeff and I did! I think we played ugly sisters back in the early noughties. We were very beautiful, ugly sisters. I think just sisters, we should be called!

Jefferson: [Laughs]

Daniel: And, while we were doing that, playing around with the "It's behind you!" and "Oh no, it isn't. Oh, yes, it is!" we started joking about, "What if somebody didn't know these traditions?"

These traditions are taught to British children as soon as they're born. That's the first thing - the midwife hands the mother a baby and she starts going, "It's behind you!". You just know it. So we started having fun with it and with the traditions and stories because the fairy tale stories... I mean, Prince Charming bases his whole search for a soulmate on shoe size! That is not a good method. I think it's just above Hinge as a way to find your perfect partner!

Jefferson: I think the other thing is that the show we'd created before was about Harry Potter, which is something both Dan and I loved. When we decided we wanted to write something new, we just tried to think, "What else do we love?" Dan loves Star Wars, I love The Simpsons. We each like those but it's individual passions. Panto was the other thing we came up with that we genuinely both loved. Even if you're performing in a panto at Christmas, you still have to go and watch another one, because you can't go a Christmas without watching one!

Daniel: I think that's an important thing with parody - it has to come from a place of love. And you really have to love your material that you are lampooning. Otherwise, it becomes a bit mean. It's why we've never done a parody of Twilight, because it's just awful!

So if you had to explain a pantomime to an American within a few sentences, how would you do it?

Daniel: The men dress up as women, the women dress up as men, and we tell jokes which wouldn't be suitable in the most R-rated movie you've ever seen, but you invite children to see them and as long as they go "Ooh!" afterwards, then it's all okay.

Jefferson: And I think Dan's just proven that you can't really explain it a few sentences, which is why we wrote an 80-minute show instead! [Laughs]

Daniel: It's a strange tradition! I think it can be compared to if you asked an American to explain to anyone else in the world what Urkel is. Many have tried to me and I still don't understand.

So what is the creative process like for a show like Potted Panto?

Jefferson: This one, we actually sat down and wrote, whereas Potted Potter we created on its feet. We were genuinely doing what people accused us of doing - messing around and writing it down as we messed around. But this, we did sit down! Three of us wrote it and we would meet up and we would go off to separate corners of the Royal Festival Hall in London and write and then come back and read it out. If the other two didn't laugh, you realise you've just wasted a couple of hours! Then we'd pass the scripts around and build on what each other have written, which is something I think both Dan and I are quite strong at in the writing game. I'm not necessarily the best at coming up with a completely original premise, but if you give me a script and say, "Can you put a couple more jokes in it?" I'm good!

Daniel: You're a good editor! And that's important too. If we did comic books, I'd draw the pictures and you do the shading because that's important! [Laughs] But one of the hardest moments is when you write something and you have to the two people you're writing with and make them laugh. The scariest performance I've ever done is in front of Jeff and Richard Hurst, who wrote this with us and directs it, and going, "I think this is funny, now I've got to get make them laugh!" And they just sit there stone-faced.

Jefferson: Saying it out loud you realise, "Oh, what was I thinking? I've had too much tea!"

Daniel: I think there was too much material! We're doing seven pantomimes in seventy minutes where we could have done eight pantomimes in eight weeks - there was so much material we wanted to include!

That actually leads perfectly into my next question! How did you go about choosing the seven pantomimes?

Jefferson: A few of them were obvious, probably three or four. All the princess ones and Jack in the Beanstalk you have to do. Aladdin, you wonder a little bit because it's a little bit dated. The core six that we've got really feel right. And then we have A Christmas Carol on top, which Dan is convinced should be a pantomime.

Daniel: It's the stories which we all know like Cinderella, which is was the original pantomime. We had to put these in as these traditions have been around for so long. But it's also important that the audience know the stories because we found when you do Harry Potter, if I put on a ginger wig and go "Hey, who am I?" Everyone goes, "Ron Weasley!" The same when you do Cinderella - they know exactly the story and what you're doing with it. We found it hard when we did Potted Sherlock, one of our other shows, where I'd come on and go "Hey, who am?" And they'd go, "I don't know!" "I'm the Count of Hampshire!" And then, "We don't know who that is!" It was really sitting down and going, "Which stories do we all know" Then we can have fun with it.

What is it about this "Potted" concept that you both enjoy so much?

Jefferson: It's the fact that we get to do what we call "machine gun comedy". Because it's fast, because it's condensed, there are an awful lot of jokes in there. Not every audience is going to love every joke, but it doesn't matter because by the time they realise they didn't like that joke, you're on to the next one. It helps keep our energy up and keeps the audience's energy up.

Daniel: And I think it's the belief that if you condense something, you're just taking the best and the funniest bits. If you watch a trailer for a movie, half the time I wouldn't watch the movie - the trailer just has everything you need, the best moments! So if we can take something like Cinderella and go, "Well, we'll do a few in five minutes," that's just going to be the best bits of it. We get rid of the bit where she's walking around the forest looking for firewood for four hours singing ballads and all the children are going to the toilet. We don't need that!

What is it about pantomimes that you think has allowed them to endure as a holiday tradition?

Jefferson: It's the closest thing we have to theatre in the Shakespearean age! It's rowdy, the audience are encouraged to shout back, join in. So I think that's really nice! It's a link to the past. And playing at Wilton's Music Hall, it really is special because it feels like we could be performing in the Victorian era. It could be 100 years ago and it will be pretty much the same jokes. I'm not saying our material's cutting edge! [Laughs]

Daniel: I also think tradition is very important, and it is now part of Christmas tradition. Imagine if you were visiting from outer space and you go, "What is this?" "Oh, it's Christmas. We take a tree from outside, we put it inside, then we put lights on it and then we hang up our socks for a man to come down the chimney and put things in them! And also we got to pantomime." Pantomime would be the one thing they go, "Okay I can understand pantomime!"

Do you have a favourite pantomime yourselves to watch?

Daniel: Mine would be Cinderella. I think Cinderella has everything. And also, it's the ultimate girl power! The men are really superfluous to Cinderella. Cinderella gets herself there, she's only fighting with the sisters. It's girls fighting against each other and coming together. That was girl power in the 1600s!

Jefferson: Nowadays I say Aladdin because, in our show, Aladdin is one I enjoy performing the most because I get to be the baddie! I never get to be the baddie so I relish that hugely. So yes, I have a bit of love for Aladdin nowadays.

Daniel: I thought you'd say Sleeping Beauty because you just get to sleep through it!

Jefferson: I always thought that and then last year, when I was lying there on stage, my back started hurting! There's age for you - I would actually rather be stood up than laid out!

What do you hope audiences take away from Potted Panto?

Daniel: Not the set, because we don't have many!

Jefferson: [Laughs]

Daniel: That was terrible! Why we love Christmas and love doing this is that feeling of goodwill, that feeling of love, happiness, of silliness, of celebrating. Right now, we could all do with a good laugh, just feeling good and having fun and coming together. I hope they get that. And we have tried to take the pantomimes and put a more modern twist on them, so they'll be seeing the stories they love told in a different way.

Jefferson: A lot less misogynistic! But yeah,

Daniel: The end of Sleeping Beauty, I can promise you the prince does not go into a complete stranger's room and kiss her while she's asleep to show true love! We come up with a much better idea.

Jefferson: I think the other thing is as wonderful and joyous the season as Christmas is, it can also be stressful. Whoever buys the presents and makes the dinner, it can be really stressful! Coming to the theatre to watch our panto - or any panto! - is two hours of just switching off, enjoying yourself and probably having a mulled wine or two.

Daniel: I was about to say I've never found Christmas stressful - that just shows I'm not the home leader! [Laughs] I just turn up, I open presents, I eat the food. What a wonderful time!

Finally, how would you describe Potted Panto in one word?

Jefferson: Hilarious!

Daniel: Magical! How's that, hilarious and magical?

Jefferson: No, that's Potted Potter! You can't just give the same answers!

Daniel: A beautiful story about a boy wizard at Christmas... [Laughs]

Potted Panto runs from 4th December - 4th January at Wilton's Music Hall. Tickets