Circuit Training 70: Unpacking Stuart Goldsmith

So popular are Stu Goldsmith's Comedian's Comedian podcasts (particularly with other comics, who have a lot of long-trips-to-gigs to fill) that certain catchphrases have caught on during its 88 shows to date - and the title above is just one of them. So who is the chap who has spent what must be about 100 hours trying to 'unpack' the methods and motivations of a huge cross-section of comic talent? I caught up with Goldsmith prior to his gig at the Larmer Tree Festival, a few weeks before the Edinburgh Fringe, and turned the tables. Not that we had a table. We were outside the back of a tent in a field.

We all know you started off doing street theatre...

We all know that, yeah! It's become a running joke on the podcast now. Mike Gunn said on Facebook recently, 'tell me, Stuart... did you ever used to do street theatre?' I get stick from everyone.

The running gags do help spice up your 'admin' bits - there are a lot of po-faced podcasters out there...

Yeah, well the podcast, it's only me following my own curiosity. I often describe it as being 'for comedy nerds', which is a shorthand way of saying 'this isn't just PR' - I find it hard to engage with surface PR-level interviews, watching someone plug a book or movie. I really make an effort to research my guests. Last year I just did the podcast in Edinburgh and I thought it'd be a breeze, but it was 10 times as hard as doing my own show, 10 times as much work. 25 guests, I got there and thought 'right, I've got to see 25 shows'... and organise it so I've seen them before I interview the person, plus trying to catch up with DVDs and research everyone.

My nightmare would be interviewing David Baddiel and going 'so, David, ever thought about writing a film?' and he'd say 'yes, I've written one, it's called The Infidel.' I don't want to get caught out in that way, but I also want to honour the fact that people come on the show prepared to talk about themselves in depth, you've got to bring yourself to that. It was a very proud moment in the interview with Greg Proops where I was able to quote several different pieces of his stand-up at him, to challenge him on a point he made, and you could see his body language go 'oh, here we go then, ok.'

It is quite odd interviewing you, because you have these two separate worlds...

What you're effectively saying is 'the podcast has been awfully successful hasn't it Stu, in two years, as opposed to you doing comedy for 10 with a limited degree of success?' Absolutely!

It must be odd for you though, that lots of people have presumably heard the podcast but not your stand-up.

I was just chatting to another comic, Tiernan Douieb, and he was saying something I get a lot, which is 'I was just listening to you on the train here' which is quite unsettling. And the other one I get, if I haven't gigged with someone for a year, I'll go 'hey man, how are you?' and they'll go 'I'm totally up to date with what you're doing.'

So how did the podcast start?

There's a couple of things. One is that I wanted to get someone like Simon Evans to do a masterclass for me and a bunch of other comics at my level, and he said he had no interest in doing that but would buy me a coffee. Or I could buy him a coffee and we'd talk about it. And I came away thinking 'oh, I wish I'd recorded that. Hang on...'

ComComPod is so widely listened to, it must have helped your profile?

Basically it's given me an identity as someone who knows and cares and can be articulate about comedy. You wouldn't necessarily pick me over another comedian to host your conference normally, but the podcast does make me that figure somehow. I want it to be an archive. I do feel like I'm building up a library where years from now you can go, 'ok, that's who that guy was.'

You're always terribly enthusiastic about each interview. But what's your favourite edition?

There are various ones for different reasons. Brendon Burns was the first one where I felt like I was familiar enough with someone's oeuvre, knew him well enough to challenge him, to actually say 'I disagree' with people talking about their own systems.

I'm fond of the Tony Law one, the Susan Calman one, those are the ones that come up again and again. I liked arguing with Susan Calman about her view of what her depression was, how permanent it could be, and I'm right, and I liked saying that it's not the same thing as being a lesbian. Being a lesbian is part of who you are and is immutable, and depression is a condition you suffer from - and she disagrees, which is fine, but she's wrong. It's just fatalistic, and it's understandable, if one's depressed. And to be fair, what she was saying was that the way she dealt with her depression was to regard it as unchangeable, and then dress it up so it's like a constant companion.

I found it useful, hearing her talk about being pessimistic on purpose - I think I do that too.

Something that makes that episode a favourite is that it's frequently referred to in emails by comics - aspiring comics, or just interesting people that email - it's frequently referred to as something that people appreciate.

Onto your own stuff then, and you're back in Edinburgh as a comic this year?

I'm doing a show called Extra Life about how I want to have kids - loosely about that, but mostly all of my best funny new stuff - and I'm really excited about it. I was lucky enough to do New Zealand for three weeks in May, and I feel like it's up there. With the greats! Well it's up and running anyway. And I'm also doing five live ComComPods.

Where a lot of random people will have seen you perform is the ITV talent contest Show Me The Funny, although I didn't, to be honest.

You didn't see it? It was brilliant.

I sense irony there. How did you get on?

I found it a stressful and unpleasant process. All of the bits of it that were to do with stand-up comedy I really enjoyed, but there was an awfully small amount of it. There was an awful lot of task-based cocking about, at a time when those of us who were writing new material were getting stressed. Potentially in front of millions of people, we'd have to do five minutes I hadn't written a word of, in 72 hours, and you want me to go and do a thing with some vegetables in a school. I found it phenomenally frustrating. Some people took to it like a duck to water: Dan Mitchell, Patrick Monahan, I think they really enjoyed the process. I didn't enjoy it one bit.

But another origin of the podcast, we got interviewed a lot about comedy there, and I didn't feel we had the chance to say much that was interesting. So that planted a seed in my mind, 'I'd actually like to do this.'

Do you do much pitching, TV-wise?

No, hardly at all.

You wouldn't fancy a chat show?

I would like to do Comedian's Comedian as a TV show, I am pitching that, I'm trying to get that made. I'm writing a sitcom with an old friend of mine, and we'd love to get that made. I'm not the sort of person that comes up with formats. I don't watch telly. When you become known as a comedian, other people come to you and say 'hey, do you want to do this other thing, because you're obviously creative and funny?' But 99 per cent of my awake time is thinking about or writing or watching stand-up, that's the stuff that really appeals to me.

I've heard John Lloyd on a few podcasts recently, and even he can't get anything made these days, and he made some of the best shows ever...

Well this is the other thing, no one can get anything made. I heard Rhys Thomas talking about this on an old episode of Chain Reaction a while ago, he was interviewing Simon Day, and saying 'are you getting stuff made?' and he said 'no, I'm not, we're all in a gang where everyone knows who we are, we've all made loads of great stuff, but if we do get something made then they don't put it out at the right time.'

I don't know if I've got the mental stamina and staying power to put up with the rejection. The go-to example is [Tim Key/Tom Basden sketch group] Cowards. They made three episodes. They were hilarious, but vanished and nothing more came of it. And you go 'if Cowards can't get that turned into a success, then what is the point?'

I think Tim Key is still pretty upset about that...

Absolutely. You just need so much energy and self-belief, and stamina, as well as all the skill and talent and luck. For me, I don't know if it's laziness, but just getting up on stage in front of some people, that's the street performer in me, it's there, you don't need to get funding or approval, you just go and do the thing you love.

But I can imagine someone thrusting you into a prime time presenting job...

I am definitely completely ready for someone to pick me up and say 'oh this needs a Stuart Goldsmith.'

How can I put this - there are a lot of uglier comics...

Outsiders, yeah - I don't look like a loser or an outsider, I'll give you that much. I have occasionally in the past had offers or interest for fairly light stuff, whereby I would be a shiny floor, Dermot O'Leary type. I've no idea what would go into that, and I'm sure Dermot O'Leary is talented and hard working, I've never met the guy, but it doesn't make me go 'ah, that's what I'm gonna be.' My mum told me I was going to be a presenter when I was, like, eight, and I remember going 'no, I want them to look at me, I want to be the thing.' And due to that pathetic vanity [looks at girlfriend, who's sitting nearby], we will never be rich or famous.

Just being a presenter must be a bit soul-destroying.

Occasionally people will say 'would you like to submit your thing for this?' and I'll say 'no, I'd like to write and do some jokes'. I think there is the right thing out there, and you know, if the podcast gets ten times more successful then it might get harder to ignore me and easier for someone to go 'oh Jesus, you know who could do this - get Goldsmith.' That would be lovely.

But my stand-up is better than it's ever been, and I'm feeling really good about life and work and comedy, and I think things like that don't happen until you free yourself from desire. So I'm the most free from desire that I've ever been, I'm just ready for the universe to give me whatever it gives me.

(And with that we spend about five minutes trying to work out how the old club classic Freed From Desire went. You wouldn't get that on the podcast)

'Stuart Goldsmith: Extra Life' is at the Pleasance Courtyard until August 24th. Listing

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