Nobody Knows Anything.... Page 2

Quote: Mikey J @ October 31 2008, 5:24 PM BST

Now, here's the thing that pisses me off the most....
..it's NOT the rejection. It happens. I move on and get over it.

It's the fact that a load crap DOES get produced.
Poor storylines. Plots that send you to sleep. How?

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I disagree that "a load of crap DOES get produced." All writing is subjective. Someone must have liked it, for it to be produced in the first place. Production companies aren't in the habit of making stuff they think is crap - it isn't in their interest. Admitted, some plots, characters, storylines, are worse than others, but that doesn't make the programme crap.

And, why don't they put up scripts from new writers?
Holby n stuff like that are written by teams of established writers.

ALL writers were 'new' at some time or another. Holby, Casuality, Doctors, Eastenders for example are the starting ground for a lot of new BBC drama writers, often those who have been nurtured after having their talent spotted by "writersroom eyes." Some go on to join the BBC Writers' Academy, and work their way up from there. A lot of the writers on the programmes listed above started out there. There is no easy route.

Try writing shorts or radio drama, send your work to other places, build up a portfolio. Do everything in your power to get a commission... any kind of commission and then work on getting another one. Small steps. It takes years.

Check out Paul Campbell's blog - He's just had his first Eastenders episode on a few nights ago. He started at the accademy: http://scriptuality.blogspot.com/

Seefacts, I'm with you, I'd rather die than work a 9-5.

I write to keep my mind active and to stop boredom which leads to me drinking.

Quote: Rustle T Davis @ October 31 2008, 9:04 PM BST

ALL writers were 'new' at some time or another. Holby, Casuality, Doctors, Eastenders for example are the starting ground for a lot of new BBC drama writers, often those who have been nurtured after having their talent spotted by "writersroom eyes." Some go on to join the BBC Writers' Academy, and work their way up from there. A lot of the writers on the programmes listed above started out there. There is no easy route.

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Also, I'd rather see a script written by an established writer. I would like to assume that they know what they're doing.

Quote: Seefacts @ October 31 2008, 2:57 PM BST

Really?

If I get nowhere and have to have a proper job, then f**k me I might just kill myself.

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amen to that

Quote: Griff @ October 31 2008, 6:13 PM BST

As long as it's not like Perry Nium's tale about the man and the donkey I don't mind.

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It's the tale about woman and the pig you should worry about.

ALL writers were 'new' at some time or another. Holby, Casuality, Doctors, Eastenders for example are the starting ground for a lot of new BBC drama writers, often those who have been nurtured after having their talent spotted by "writersroom eyes."

Regarding "their talent spotted" at writersroom, what EXACTLY are they looking for in those first 10 pages?

It can't be plot because the drama/comedy/whatever is only just starting to unfold in those first pages.

So therefore, it MUST be writing "style."

What I meant earlier by "crap scripts" is that many of those example scripts on writersroom AREN'T very well written in regards to writing style.
Some are very "cat sat on the mat." (do you get what I mean?)

Even though they're scripts, they should be a good read too.

Here's a little example: (not from a real script BTW)

This is poorly written:

Example A:
JACK looks up at the sky. He watches a flock of birds flying over. One of the birds poos on his shoulder.

Whereas, this is BETTER:

Example B:
JACK glances towards the heavens. Flock of birds flying over. Then - splat! Birdshit on his shoulder.

See? The first example is very cat sat on the mat. Anyone could write that.
Second example looks more like a writer.

I know I'm going on a bit here... sorry!

So therefore, script readers, I assume, are looking for a writer who can write like Example B.
Well, at last, surely, they're supposed to. Aren't they?

Going back to the original topic of this thread, maybe they don't know anything.
Maybe they don't know what they're looking for.

Or maybe writersroom is just a fabrication. Maybe it just exists as a false glimmer of hope for new writers and that they simply file all manuscipts for 2 months, then send them back.

Quote: Mikey J @ November 1 2008, 4:50 PM BST

Here's a little example: (not from a real script BTW)

This is poorly written:

Example A:
JACK looks up at the sky. He watches a flock of birds flying over. One of the birds poos on his shoulder.

Whereas, this is BETTER:

Example B:
JACK glances towards the heavens. Flock of birds flying over. Then - splat! Birdshit on his shoulder.

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I don't think writing good stage directions is going to make any difference. The first example is the better one. It gets the point across.

The dialogue and unfolding of the plot is where the writing needs to be exquisite.

The dialogue and unfolding of the plot is where the writing needs to be exquisite.

Yeah, I suppose.

However, if you look at example scripts at writersroom, the first 10 pages don't unfold any plot. They can't in such a small space of time. They only really set the scene for the episode. Not a lot actually goes on.

Funnily enough, I made sure I sent a drama where the action starts straight away. I thought it would help. I was wrong.

Sorry. Ignore me, I'm just venting off.
I'll be all right tomorrow.

Yeah, that rejection kinda hit me hard.

The script was polished, had action right from the start which sets up the whole plot, (like the Hustle script you pointed out) tackled something original, something controversial, but with a twist, etc.

Then it doesn't even make it through the sift.

Doesn't usually affect me so badly.

And yeah, those drama scripts are mostly good.
But it's some of those comedy scripts that I don't get.

Especially "Marigold."
It's unoriginal.
It's a totally stereotype family. Plus other sterotype characters.
Gag light. (almost gag free)
Tired "so been done before" storylines.

And was a winner of a BBC contest. Eh?????

How did that get made?

That's what I'm finding hard to swallow.

Nevertheless.....
I'll read through the rejected script, make changes, improve it, then send it somewhere else. Thing is, if I polish it any more, I'll be able to see my face in it.

Quote: Griff @ November 1 2008, 6:32 PM BST

As to what they are looking for in those first 10 pages, all I know is it's "something that makes them want to read page 11".

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The emphasis is also on 'them'. What might grab a reader on a certain day, might not interest at another time, or a different reader. There's so much luck involved, because often we're just talking a matter of taste, rather than judgement.

We feel that pain, Mikey, and frustrations re: WR.

Agree with Winterlight, example 1 of the two you gave was imo better. Simple. Direct. Not over-written. It was Cuprinol compared to the more 'writery' version you gave.

DD, spot on.

Quote: Griff @ November 1 2008, 6:32 PM BST

As to what they are looking for in those first 10 pages, all I know is it's "something that makes them want to read page 11".

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Quote: Dolly Dagger @ November 1 2008, 7:26 PM BST

The emphasis is also on 'them'. What might grab a reader on a certain day, might not interest at another time, or a different reader. There's so much luck involved, because often we're just talking a matter of taste, rather than judgement.

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Agree with both those things.

It's just the same when you 'watch' something on TV. What one person thinks is fantastic, another may dislike. I think the toughest thing about a rejection is when you're not told 'why' your script's been rejected. At least if you're given some feedback, you know where to go next with it and how to improve it.

I've got a script out at the moment, and I actually think it's pretty darn good. If it comes back without even a glimmer of hope, I'll be gutted. But I'm still anticipating that is likely to happen, and if it does, I'll rewrite it for the millionth time and send it out again. In the meantime, I'm already working on my next script. I'm not looking for praise. Like a lot of writers, I'm looking for feedback as I'm sure you are too, Mikey?

Do as you said... rewrite your script and if you really believe in it, don't give up on it. At least if you send it out again, you should eventually get some feedback. That alone is like gold dust.

Wasn't it Life On Mars that was turned down again and again before it was finally made? Good luck!

I can't believe what I wrote earlier. I was reeeeeeeally down.

I'm cured now though lol

Thanks for all the advice n stuff.
All taken on board.

Oh, and I'm working on various scripts at the moment. I'll just keep plodding on.

And yeah.... I watched the extras on the Life On Mars DVD.
Had a great interview with the writers, where they said it took 7 years to get to the screen.

Agree with Winterlight, example 1 of the two you gave was imo better. Simple. Direct. Not over-written. It was Cuprinol compared to the more 'writery' version you gave.

Hmm... maybe my directions are too writery.

Directions should be very well written. They are like poetry, as with dialogue, in as much as they should have the maximum bang for the minimum buck, not poetical in the sense of lots of similies and metaphoricals. They are there to place the reader in your imagined world and hold them there whilst still fulfilling a technical function for the directors and other secondary artists like the actors to interpret.

I've said it before but it is all about STORY. Don't break the willing suspension of disbelief by taking your readers out of your story. A novelist writes in such a way that the reader wants to turn to the next page, scripts are no different and the writers who are aware of this and write accordingly are probably the ones that get the reader past the ten page thingummy with the writersroom - ideally long past before they realise they are not even counting the pages. Turning the corners back mind, sounds a bit anal to me - either the reader needs help counting to ten or perhaps he hasn't read ten pages and is just doing that to pretend he has.

Well, there's two contrasting views Mikey. I'm never going to argue with Marc, especially with his track record. Maybe it's what I'm doing wrong and I should incorporate far more expressive actions / directions, rather than coat it in Cuprinol.

Quote: Marc P @ November 2 2008, 9:13 AM GMT

Turning the corners back, sounds a bit anal to me.

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It doesn't sound like anal at all.

Quote: Seefacts @ October 31 2008, 2:57 PM BST

If I get nowhere and have to have a proper job, then f**k me I might just kill myself.

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'Facts, there is absolutely nothing wrong with killing yourself. I believe it is your right.

Quote: Rustle T Davis @ October 31 2008, 9:04 PM BST

Seefacts, I'm with you, I'd rather die than work a 9-5.

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When will you decide?

It's like the old joke, my wife says she'd die for me, but never does.

Quote: Deferenz @ October 31 2008, 6:34 PM BST

Please tell me I'm not alone in this writers madness?
Def.

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No, you're not. I am the same with song ideas which I get constantly. But I don't see it as madness, it's great!!!

A wop bop a loo bop, a lop bam boom! What a lyric that was!!! (not one of mine btw...)