I think we've upset someone Page 9

Quote: Timbo @ October 7 2008, 11:20 PM BST

In the ecosystem we now inhabit, yes, ambition and persistence are vital. But is the highly motivated writer with a cast-iron self-belief necessarily capable of producing higher quality material than the sluggard plagued with self-doubt who requires nurturing and encouraging? Douglas Adams is the classic example of the latter, and I really wonder how he would fare today.

In any case, in my experience the people who do their job well tend to be not so much the go-getters, as those who stumble into it and then apply themselves out of conscientiousness and self-respect. Whether this applies to a creative career such as writing I am not certain, but I suspect it does. I am sure that for every successful writer there are countless individuals who could be just as good if they applied themselves to that craft.

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Every pro writer has self-belief. Writing is so cut throat, if you weren't confident you'd be cut up within a week.

Quote: The Producer @ October 7 2008, 10:41 PM BST

2 Pints does get unfair criticism in that it does what it says on the tin (I liked and always watched the earlier series), but when you repeat one series a million times on BBC3 then you are bound to get people's backs up.

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It's all about audience figures though isn't it? If it's still pulling in the ratings it's going to get re-commissioned. But I do agree that maybe it's getting a little long in the tooth now. It's been a massive success (and deservedly-so in my opinion) but there's only so far you can push it. Even one of the recent episodes was called "Jonny Jumps The Shark". If you're not familiar with the term "jumping the shark" it's a reference to a scene in a later episode of Happy Days where The Fonz jumps a shark on waterskis, a scene so ridiculous that it's perceived as an attempt to revive the fortunes of a flagging show.

UPDATE: I stand corrected (by my missus). The episode was called Johnny Meets Sharky, where Johnny dies because he tried to "jump a shark". But the subtext is obvious.

Isn't it?

I think that there are numerous references in the episode to actually "jumping the shark" in more or less that context. And given the nature of the episode (broadcast live, packed with stunts like fire eating), there's no subtext at all. It's blatant and unashamed.

Quote: Aaron @ October 7 2008, 11:39 PM BST

I think that there are numerous references in the episode to actually "jumping the shark" in more or less that context. And given the nature of the episode (broadcast live, packed with stunts like fire eating), there's no subtext at all. It's blatant and unashamed.

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Yeah, but it just covers bad writing. It's an excuse to make a shoddy script look like it was done on purpose.

The Simpsons started it off - ironic lines like 'that ending made no sense'. Of course having had 10 years of genius, they could get away with it.

And given that style of writing is aimed at comedy fans, your average 2 Pints fan would be too much of a dolt to spot it and understand it.

Quote: Perry Nium @ October 7 2008, 11:28 PM BST

UPDATE: I stand corrected (by my missus).

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Does she stand over you and go 'No, don't post that, it's not quite right'

Quote: Seefacts @ October 7 2008, 11:23 PM BST

Every pro writer has self-belief. Writing is so cut throat, if you weren't confident you'd be cut up within a week.

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I am not sure cut-throat is quite the right word, but yes, as I said before self-confidence and self-promotion are vital, now more so perhaps than at any time in the past. But is that the best of all possible worlds? As a viewer, do I want to see the work of the most self-confident writer or the most talented?

Quote: Seefacts @ October 7 2008, 11:44 PM BST

Does she stand over you and go 'No, don't post that, it's not quite right'

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Quote: Timbo @ October 7 2008, 11:48 PM BST

self-confident writer or the most talented?

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I'd say they go hand in hand.

Self confidence of the modest type, maybe.
Not cocky arrogance.

Quote: Seefacts @ October 7 2008, 11:50 PM BST

I'd say they go hand in hand.

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In my experience confidence is often misplaced and talent is often wasted.

Quote: zooo @ October 7 2008, 11:51 PM BST

Self confidence of the modest type, maybe.
Not cocky arrogance.

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Well no, those are different of course. Fine line though.

Self-confidence is important and talent is important.

I'm pretty sure that self-confidence doesn't imply talent though.

Quote: Griff @ October 8 2008, 12:00 AM BST

Self-confidence is important and talent is important.

I'm pretty sure that self-confidence doesn't imply talent though.

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Oh, no that's true, but it's important.

I bet if you had two talented writers both would have confidence.

You could get two people with confidence but only one may be a good writer.

Quote: Seefacts @ October 8 2008, 12:01 AM BST

I bet if you had two talented writers both would have confidence.

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I have had the pleasure of knowing three exceptionally talented people in my life, an artist, a musician and a born comedian. All in their different ways were crippled by self-doubt and failed to realise their potential

But this discussion is fruitless. The way of the world is that if you want to get on as writer in broadcast media you need brass balls.

If you like it, do it. If you don't like it, then stop complaining. There is an awful lot of back biting and complaining on this site. I have PMed Aaron before about this. Just do what you do and enjoy it. It's the creativeness and the sheer pleasure of doing it that should stimulate you. If all you do is complain that everything is shit; it will be. Laugh for God's sake. That's what you want everybody else to do.

You jsut confessed to being a grass.

Just wait till you use the showers later, stool pigeon!

n.b. being ironic here!