I didn't mean that directly at you, either! I was just generally blurting out.
Theist/Atheist or Agnostic Page 7
Does anyone on here agree with Glenn Hoddle's theory, that people who are born handicapped, are being punished, for stuff they did in a former life?
Quote: SlagA @ August 30 2008, 5:24 PM BSTFrankie's approach of active apathy of course requires no faith.
..it's true, I confess, I have no faith..
Quote: catskillz @ August 30 2008, 9:44 PM BSTDoes anyone on here agree with Glen Hoddle's theory, that people who are born handicapped, are being punished, for stuff they did in a former life?
That concept must be bollocks surely? 
And on the subject of there being a higher intelligence than us 'up there' or 'out there' somewhere. There might well be, but I don't think it's likely that it/they have anything to do with being a 'God' to be 'worshipped' in a 'church' or on a 'prayer mat'. And if there is a higher intelligence than us, well, I suppose we'll have to kill it/them? Innit? Or perhaps they'll teach us to stop the killing, eh? But ain't it a moot point, really?
Quote: Paul W @ August 30 2008, 5:30 PM BSTYeah basically, science can only explain so far, I believe there is a higher (god like) entity, For everything to be as it is to make life is literally billions to one if not more!
So you are a theist, after all?
Your view is pretty much the same as mine. I cannot believe this is all a coincidence I really do see design everywhere I look. But what exactly God is is another question entirely. He is certainly not love, I'm damned sure about that. Whether he's/it's actually bothered in the slightest about us is also another question mark.
The thing is because we live in a Christian country, people hear the word God and immediately think of the beardy, all-loving Christian definition, as if believing in God is that or nothing.
My mate once said I don't believe in God but I do believe there is some sort of force that created everything.
Erm, well, that'll be a God then!!!
Quote: Aaron @ August 30 2008, 7:09 PM BSTI think you're getting the principle of a "higher being" confused with the tales of miracles, plagues, wine and fish in the Bible. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who believe that the latter is a load of tosh, but that the former, in some extent or variety, is possible.
Just not the stereotypical big hand and fluffy white beard reaching down from the bright blue sky...
Oops! Soz Azza, didnee see this! But yeah, definitely!
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ August 30 2008, 8:33 PM BSTI'm more than willing to take your ideas into account, and really wasn't suggesting that you were forcing anything (it was just this guy's completely unrelated ravings); but I'm possibly also willing to say that I feel anyone who doesn't believe in even the possibility of some kind of higher being, is also lacking something. To me, not to be even able to consider the idea of a kind of higher being suggests something very disillusioned and unromantic in someone's personality. I don't mean it as romantic in a love way, I just can't see personally how you can feel there is no possible existence of some higher being, be it God-like or not. I'm not saying that everyone should be religious - far from it - I'm only saying that to always see the world as it's given to you seems a little self-assured in a world where we know so little about ourselves as individuals, and as world.
Phew! I'm probably just ironically playing Devil's Advocate!
Listen to her, she the resident genius!!
Actually I think in a way people in Britain who don't believe in or refuse to believe in anything are as bad as the exremist believers in places like the Middle East. It's probably no coincidence that almost everyone there believes strongly, because it's so deeply engrained in their culture/society - basically, in a nutshell, they do it cos everyone else does.
In the West it's the opposite, most people here are atheists and in fact a lot of people would laugh at you for believing in something, just as the folks in the Middle East would shun you for not believing. Basically you're just doing the same - what everyone else is doing.
I'm probably gonna get some stick for saying this, so I'll stress I'm not talking about every single person, but I would bet anything that if these people were born in an Arab oountry or whatever they would be devout Muslims, just depends where they are and what they've been told.
Quote: ian_w @ August 31 2008, 9:20 AM BSTIn the West it's the opposite, most people here are atheists
Oh no, I can't agree with this at all. The vast majority of people do have beliefs, but they don't push it and vocalise it in the same way as others do.
Quote: Aaron @ August 31 2008, 9:49 AM BSTOh no, I can't agree with this at all. The vast majority of people do have beliefs, but they don't push it and vocalise it in the same way as others do.
Perhaps so, I'm just going on official statistics. Actually just looking at this thread there does seem to be a direct split down the middle. I'm quite open to being wrong!
Quote: zooo @ August 30 2008, 8:45 PM BSTNo, I see what you mean Scats!
I have considered the infinitessimal possibility there could be a higher power of some description, and have then dismissed it. I should think that's what most of us atheists have done. Even if they only needed to consider it for 30 seconds.
Zooo I'm really interested to know what arguments you used to dismiss it so quickly? Why is the possibility infinitessimally small in your view?
Quote: catskillz @ August 30 2008, 9:44 PM BSTDoes anyone on here agree with Glen Hoddle's theory, that people who are born handicapped, are being punished, for stuff they did in a former life?
A lot of religios people would say the opposite. Being born handicapped means you have more barriers and struggles. It gives you more of a chance, to rpove your self and grow.
But no it's biology and fate. The real question is how we the more able help them and treat them as equals.
Hoddle was as bad a theologian as he was a football manager.
Can I just state the obvious here and say that nothing I might say on this thread is supposed to insult anyone, cos I like you all and don't think any of you are morons. There.
Quote: ian_w @ August 31 2008, 10:00 AM BSTZooo I'm really interested to know what arguments you used to dismiss it so quickly? Why is the possibility infinitessimally small in your view?
It just seems so blindingly obvious to me.
It's just a fairytale that there's 'something up there', or someone who 'created us'.
I mean, who? You can't just say you have a 'feeling' there's something without going further. What logical, or concrete reason do you have for believing that - isn't it obviously just something we humans have invented to make ourselves feel better?
The patterns are just nature and evolution, it's a a scientific accident that we exist. I find that very comforting, actually. Nothing really matters, because we're only here by accident anyway. So we should be bloody grateful for it and get the most out of it that we can.
Quote: zooo @ August 31 2008, 10:55 AM BSTI don't think any of you are morons.
Even me?
Even you!
Ooh, postcount porn.
Quote: zooo @ August 31 2008, 10:55 AM BSTCan I just state the obvious here and say that nothing I might say on this thread is supposed to insult anyone, cos I like you all and don't think any of you are morons. There.
It just seems so blindingly obvious to me.
It's just a fairytale that there's 'something up there', or someone who 'created us'.I mean, who? You can't just say you have a 'feeling' there's something without going further. What logical, or concrete reason do you have for believing that - isn't it obviously just something we humans have invented to make ourselves feel better?
The patterns are just nature and evolution, it's a a scientific accident that we exist. I find that very comforting, actually. Nothing really matters, because we're only here by accident anyway. So we should be bloody grateful for it and get the most out of it that we can.
Exac-er-ley. 
Quote: Aaron @ August 31 2008, 11:08 AM BST
Especially NOT you, silly!
Hey, and not me either then.. 
*phew*
Quote: zooo @ August 31 2008, 10:55 AM BSTCan I just state the obvious here and say that nothing I might say on this thread is supposed to insult anyone, cos I like you all and don't think any of you are morons. There.
But I don't understand, why did you PM me and say you're going to upset all the morons??
It just seems so blindingly obvious to me.
It's just a fairytale that there's 'something up there', or someone who 'created us'.I mean, who? You can't just say you have a 'feeling' there's something without going further. What logical, or concrete reason do you have for believing that - isn't it obviously just something we humans have invented to make ourselves feel better?
The patterns are just nature and evolution, it's a a scientific accident that we exist. I find that very comforting, actually. Nothing really matters, because we're only here by accident anyway. So we should be bloody grateful for it and get the most out of it that we can.
Iiiiiinteresting! Thanks for sharing!
I dunno if the difference in believing or not believing is that great tbh though. The sheer scale of the coincidence for it having been accidental, I mean the odds involved, are probably not that much shorter than everything being by design.
Hmmm, I think I'm off to Ladbrook's to put a quid on God!
Quote: ian_w @ August 31 2008, 4:10 PM BSTBut I don't understand, why did you PM me and say you're going to upset all the morons??
Hardy har.
Quote: ian_w @ August 31 2008, 9:20 AM BSTSo you are a theist, after all?
No I still fall in the catergory of Athiest, I don't believe IN god, I don't believe there is a god per sa.
I believe there is something that is bigger than we are "God Like" - I'm using a very loose term.