I haven't really come across anyone who hates all non Brits during the Olympics. It's generally been people who are happy for anyone nice who wins but extra happy if it's a Brit.
For example, everyone's been loving Usain Bolt and wanting him to win, and he's Jamaican.
Quote: SimonWing @ August 12 2012, 12:47 PM BSTI was going to reiterate that point, so it didn't get taken wrongly. I didn't state the UK guys were necessarily dicks. In fact my stance is that dickishness is pretty much independent of which side of an arbitrary line you were born on.
I agree that a lot of the big guys - Hoy, Wiggins etc. - seem perfectly personable. But the French guy who pipped another Brit to gold elsewhere could be equally personable.
But you're approaching this with a Spockish attitude and applying cold hard logic. It's like the binary theory of why patriotism makes no sense. It might be illogical and daft and make no sense but that's just the way it is.
Sports is no fun if you don't have a team to support. In this case, it is Team GB, because Olympics will always be geographical. It doesn't make it a bad thing. Not unless you are attacking other countries and players for not being your own.
Where is goes wrong is when you start applying your own prejudice to the support. I read a horrible thing about the many many horrible tweets from US supporters when the US soccer team beat Japan. Horrible stuff about Hiroshima mainly. Nasty scumbags. Bu wha do you expect when you teach your children not only to be proud of your heritage, but that all other civilisations and societies are inferior?
Quote: Monster Scum Bag @ August 12 2012, 12:22 PM BSTThank you! Couldn't agree more. Patriotism basically says because I was born here that means this country is the greatest. It's a silly, stupid, archaic way of thinking that separates and divides us even more as a species. It's like those people who say "If we didn't save the world you'd all be speaking German!" You did nothing. Stop leeching off past generations achievements and crediting them for yourselves you stupid, lazy f**k.
So what do we do instead, have an individual only Olympics where millions tune in to watch a person we know little about? I can't see it attracting millions of viewers like the Olympics does, myself. We all have a pack mentality, and show loyalty to those who've brought us up, the family, our friends then our schools maybe, town, and ultimately country. Perfectly normal.
Quote: zooo @ August 12 2012, 12:53 PM BSTI haven't really come across anyone who hates all non Brits during the Olympics. It's generally been people who are happy for anyone nice who wins but extra happy if it's a Brit.
For example, everyone's been loving Usain Bolt and wanting him to win, and he's Jamaican.
Wrong.
I think he's a complete tool and I wanted USA to win 4z100 last night.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ August 12 2012, 1:07 PM BSTWhere is goes wrong is when you start applying your own prejudice to the support. I read a horrible thing about the many many horrible tweets from US supporters when the US soccer team beat Japan. Horrible stuff about Hiroshima mainly. Nasty scumbags. Bu wha do you expect when you teach your children not only to be proud of your heritage, but that all other civilisations and societies are inferior?
But by bigging-up your own heritage, it stands to reason that the others will be inferior.
If X is "the best", then Y and Z are going to be inferior. Either way, even if a country is (by some hypothetical measurement) "the best", most/much of it was done before any of us was born - Empire, industrial revolution, Shakespeare, Darwin, George Fornby, Newton etc.
Sorry to be spockish, but a generation of young men needlessly walked into machine-gun fire from the other 'side' (again arbitrary alliances) driven by this strange affliction called patriotism. I'm glad it's joining religion and (genuine) racism in fading out (albeit, much more slowly).
Can't decide on Bolt.
His cockiness seems a lot more jovial than the more aggressive cockiness/bravado seen by sprinters in the muscular 90's.
The way he acknowledged his kit-box carrier kid before the 200m final showed he doesn't operate like other athletes 'in the zone'.
That said, I prefer my dominant athletes just to win without the ego. Michael Johnson's demeanor made him even more awesome IMHO.
Okay, everyone except Oldrocker.
I liked that Usain did the Mo 'M' thingy when he finished the 4x100. Also he stopped mid way through a live interview to be quiet during someone's medal ceremony national anthem. He seems quite nice.
Quote: SimonWing @ August 12 2012, 1:24 PM BSTBut by bigging-up your own heritage, it stands to reason that the others will be inferior.
If X is "the best", then Y and Z are going to be inferior. Either way, even if a country is (by some hypothetical measurement) "the best", most/much of it was done before any of us was born - Empire, industrial revolution, Shakespeare, Darwin, George Fornby, Newton etc.
thout the ego. Michael Johnson's demeanor made him even more awesome IMHO.
These are two different things. Being proud of the positive parts of your country's history and being repentant of the negatives does most certainly not equate to the 'best country EVAR! All other countries suck! Go *insert country of origin* WOOOOOOO!' mindset.
This is much more of an American tradition.
The UK probably isn't the best at anything, and I'm totally cool with that. It is possible to be proud of the contributions our nation has made without thinking every other country is full of inferior dickbags.
Not including the Scotish, obviously.
You've got a very black and white view that national pride has to equate to enequality and prejudice. Maybe in 50 years ago. What we may consider patriotism nowerdays is in reality way more closely associated with xenophobia, rather than true patriotism. In the same way that people misguidedly see feminists as DM wearing man-haters.
I have to say that a bit of personal experience/contact does go a long way.
I was a junior athlete. Not great by any stretch, but good enough to scrape into Top-10-ish in the country for my age group (horizontal jumps - long and triple), and therefore be part of big national junior competitions. I am 30, so my main experiences would be with those aged 27-33-ish (obviously not including the late-bloomers, who were not on the junior radar).
At the English Schools Championships, in Exeter, I played football with a cocky young kid called Mo Farah, just before one of his finals. My distance running national level also-ran friend, Hugh, was acquainted with him, so I ended up in the kick-about. Mo left the game as his race was about to start, didn't warm-up at all and then proceeded to win at a canter. IIRC, he then returned as though nothing had happened. Mo Farah was one of those prodigies who was a bit of a celebrity in junior athletics at this time (along with Goldie Sayers, Marc Lewis-Francis etc.), so I remember telling my mum about it. She emailed me just the other day (I am in Japan) to tell me that "that kid did well didn't he", and I would be lying if I said I hadn't kept half-an-eye on his progression over the years.
Chris Tomlinson came 6th at these Olympics. He was in my exact year in the horizontal jumps, and was "that guy who wore baggy surf shorts, never warmed-up and kicked everyone's arse while looking like he was barely trying". The Brit who won the long jump was way younger than me. I had wondered if he was ever on the radar as a dominant prodigal "young'un" (13/14-year-old) in my event, and the name had rung a bell when he burst onto the scene a few years back. Not sure though.
I'd kept my eye on the other prodigies from my team/county/region who eventually fell by the wayside (still remember the names now - Carl Myerscough, Nic Andrews, Sharon Davidge, Emma Carpinter - all to be world-beaters). Unfortunately, every powerful athletics nation has prodigies in most ages-categories and events, so space is limited when they all bottle-neck at the sharp-end of adult competition.
In my event, Brian Robinson and Jonathon Moore (son of Aston Moore) were two of many "can't miss" prospects who never reached Olympic level. Therefore, I get quite aggrieved when people criticise their nation's sportspeople for the 'failure' of finishing 6th, or whatever. Of course, this time with a successful Olympics, the bandwagon has swang in the massively overly-praising direction. Either way, all these people in very competitive circuits (Track/Field etc.) are excellent, regardless of nationality.
Then you have the late-bloomers who come out of nowhere. I was only a few centimetres short of Jonathon Edward's Devon School Triple Jump record, so it's safe to say he was definitely not a prodigy.
Very interesting and all, but that has absolutely no bearing on any of the points you have actually made so I will just breeze past it.
Apart from pointing out that Chris Tomlinson is from my secondary school. Yay, go Nunthorpe Comprehensive!
Quote: Nat Wicks @ August 12 2012, 2:09 PM BSTVery interesting and all, but that has absolutely no bearing on any of the points you have actually made so I will just breeze past it.
Apart from pointing out that Chris Tomlinson is from my secondary school. Yay, go Nunthorpe Comprehensive!
Not at all. My point is that being from the UK has no impact on my support.
However, personal contact (yes, most likely within the UK) DOES have an impact. However, these slightly stronger connections (met, same school, competed against as a junior etc.) are very dispersed.
In my case, it is very much concentrated on Track/Field in the 27-33 age category. In all other sports, they're almost-certainly just strangers whom I had never heard of until their medal was announced (and, in some cases, I'd never even heard of the sport).
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Back on the annoying patriotism thing. I have never seen any comments page thread about Andy Murray that hasn't become just a massive Scottish/English argument. It's just pathetic - on both sides.
Not true to get anywhere in sports you need 2 things; natural ability and training to take advantage of it.
Some of the UK athletes have had hundreds of thousands invested in them to take the natural ability and convert it into world beating performance.
Probably in Tiber or Palestine there's a better potential runner than Mo.
That we spent £260,000,000 on the Olympic team. Whilst swimming pools close around the country.
Is something not to be entirely proud of.
Just been to watch the Olympic Marathon.
Thought I'd better go & see something Live before it finishes.
Where did you stand?
Just before the bend bit where they come back on themselves near Tower Bridge
So we got to see them all twice.
And it was right next to a Pub as well.
Bonus!