Not at all, you may well be a top notch writer (but like a Muslim stripper, we never see the goods). It's more the tone, and perhaps a lack of advice or constructive criticism.
And what ever you post up, prepare to be judged!
Welcome to the land of the 360 degree apraisal.
Quote: sootyj @ July 4 2008, 7:54 PM BSTNot at all, you may well be a top notch writer (but like a Muslim stripper, we never see the goods). It's more the tone, and perhaps a lack of advice or constructive criticism.
And what ever you post up, prepare to be judged!
Welcome to the land of the 360 degree apraisal.
Yeah, I'm a bit like MFI - you never see the goods.
I'm just of the belief that you can have the best characterisation and plot in the world but if you have no jokes you're in trouble.
As I said, when it goes out you can do some crit on the 2.5 mins that are in it. I look forward to it.
I don't mind being judged either, that's life!
I don't think you have to post your material to necessarily have an opinion on those who do.
Personally, I don't post my stuff in the critique section. OK, to a degree I'm lucky in that I now have people inside the "industry" to directly send my scripts to.
I, however, don't frequent the critique section at all. I may not put my own stuff up for critique on here, but then I don't give feedback on people who do post. (Best way for an easy life.)
People should feel free to post-or-not-post their work. Though if you do post then I think anyone is entitled to offer whatever (positive or negative) criticism they want.
Quote: Tim Walker @ July 4 2008, 8:08 PM BSTThough if you do post then I think anyone is entitled to offer whatever (positive or negative) criticism they want.
I've suggested before a "real life" forum where you could post and have no limits on feedback....i'd post my stuff in a heartbeat!
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 8:19 PM BSTYes of course they are. But I also reserve the right to hold different opinions of the people who make helpful suggestions (as Marc P did recently with his sample lines of dialogue) and those who loftily announce "this is shit" without anything helpful to say.
Who's said 'this is shit' again? Ah yes, no one.
Marc P's breakdown, in the first part of said script, was just 'Needs to be a funny line' about 6 times over. That's just a nice way of saying 'this bit isn't funny'.
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 8:19 PM BSTYes of course they are. But I also reserve the right to hold different opinions of the people who make helpful suggestions (as Marc P did recently with his sample lines of dialogue) and those who loftily announce "this is shit" without anything helpful to say.
That's ultimately the risk one takes posting on a public forum, surely?
When I've had a producer either offer no constructive feedback or indeed blatantly negative feedback about a script, sure, I have the "right" to have an opinion about him or her. But it doesn't change a f**king thing, does it?
Positive feedback is nice, but only if you deserve it. And, of course, we all feel we deserve it, don't we?
Quote: Tim Walker @ July 4 2008, 8:24 PM BSTThat's ultimately the risk one takes posting on a public forum, surely?
When I've had a producer either offer no constructive feedback or indeed blatantly negative feedback about a script, sure, I have the "right" to have an opinion about him or her. But it doesn't change a f**king thing, does it?
Positive feedback is nice, but only if you deserve it. And, of course, we all feel we deserve it, don't we?
If someone posts and they get, say, three bits of constructive crit then that's three more than they'd get from cold-calling a producer.
Producers deal in either never getting back or 'Not for us'. That means, quite simply, 'I didn't like it.'
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 8:30 PM BSTThis could go on forever.
Oh, it will mate, you know it will. Maybe it'll be on another writers' discussion thread, but it will go on for ever...
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 8:30 PM BSTMy point is that people responding in Critique aren't bigshot producers, they're just other writers.
But that swings both ways - they have no weight behind them so you're free to ignore them if you wish.
Anyone entering this industry who is upset by the feedback of an unknown random on an Internet forum will be in for a rough ride!
The only thing i'd like to see is an age disclaimer - i would (genuinely) feel bad for having a go at anyone under 18 who is far from developed....any adult though, fair game. If their stuff sucks they need to know, "give it some plot, some good characters and add in something funny" is false hope. You might as well tell Stevie Wonder that if he sorts out the eyes thing he'll be a good painter.
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 9:15 PM BSTI agree entirely. And mostly I do ignore the bigmouths. (Mind you I generally find that the people who say things like that are often the ones who throw the biggest hissy fits when their own work is criticised). And actually my experience of meeting and dealing with people from TV, radio and theatre is that they are generally very diplomatic, even when saying "no". The whole world of performing arts is very touchy-feely. I've dealt with much nastier people working in my day job.
Yeah you tell 'em! Get your big boots on and give those shitty wannabe writers a kicking! You're doing them a favour really in the long run, innit. They'll thank you for it one day. They're lucky to have someone around to give 'em some straight talking.
What did you have for your tea?
Quote: Pete @ July 4 2008, 8:50 PM BSTBut that swings both ways - they have no weight behind them so you're free to ignore them if you wish.
You are free to ignore the people with weight behind them as well. An awful lot wouldn't have happened if people hadn't.
Quote: Pete @ July 4 2008, 8:50 PM BSTAnyone entering this industry who is upset by the feedback of an unknown random on an Internet forum will be in for a rough ride!
But the point of Critique is to be constructive. I want to get positive feedback, we all do, but I also want people to tell me what is wrong. The people I get annoyed with are the people who make condescending comments indicating their vastly superior skill, but who do not give me an useful feedback to work with. I have to take crap off producers, but I am buggered if I am going to take it off anyone on here.
Quote: Pete @ July 4 2008, 8:50 PM BSTThe only thing i'd like to see is an age disclaimer - i would (genuinely) feel bad for having a go at anyone under 18 who is far from developed....any adult though, fair game. If their stuff sucks they need to know, "give it some plot, some good characters and add in something funny" is false hope. You might as well tell Stevie Wonder that if he sorts out the eyes thing he'll be a good painter.
People have a considerable capacity to continue learning after they turn 18. In any case there is such a thing as letting people down gently. As for false hope, f**k, I'd sooner have that than none at all. False hope has got me through some rough times over the years. And who am I to say what sucks, or anyone else for that matter? William Goldman's mantra was "Nobody Knows Anything". A useful phrase to remember when people start talking loftily about "rules" and "basics"
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 9:15 PM BSTThey're lucky to have someone around to give 'em some straight talking.
Your use of the words "straight talking" is interesting here. To me it implies that you see blunt but truthful assessment as something negative. More so when you applaud producers for their diplomacy and suggest "nasty" people are found elsewhere.
Maybe its you who is touchy feely and others pandering to that is whats given you the impression you are not alone?
Quote: Timbo @ July 4 2008, 9:22 PM BSTAs for false hope, f**k, I'd sooner have that than none at all.
Then that's where we differ. Life has a million opportunities for all of us - if you're banging on the wrong door you are better of knowing it so you can look elsewhere.
Well there's a very small number of peoples opinions I value here.
And generally I don't know if they're succesful writers, as they never really seem to boast.
Careful who you pass on the ladder going up, you might meet them on the way back down again.
And it's veyr rare to find work here, that doesn't have some spark of potential (unless it's another bloody troll).
Quote: Timbo @ July 4 2008, 9:22 PM BSTPeople have a considerable capacity to continue learning after they turn 18. In any case there is such a thing as letting people down gently. As for false hope, f**k, I'd sooner have that than none at all. False hope has got me through some rough times over the years. And who am I to say what sucks, or anyone else for that matter? William Goldman's mantra was "Nobody Knows Anything". A useful phrase to remember when people start talking loftily about "rules" and "basics"
That's just one of those phrases that means nothing in reality.
Of course there are basics and rules. That's why there are bad scripts and good scripts in this world.
Quote: Timbo @ July 4 2008, 9:22 PM BSTAnd who am I to say what sucks, or anyone else for that matter?
People need more confidence in their own opinion.
If you can't have an opinion with conviction, then what have you got?
Quote: Griff @ July 4 2008, 9:33 PM BSTThat actually made me laugh. It's still cooking.
Well, I bet I'll think it's shit.
Someone else will probably say 'Hmm, needs to be tastier'.
SATIRE!
Christ, it's a bit late for tea, isn't it?