Quote: Marc P @ April 17 2008, 1:08 PM BSTGood writing is in the design.
Did you get that from a fortune cookie?
On the subject of Bushbaby's script, the problem with it is that I liked it, it was nice, but I didn't love it. And I think if you're going to grab a producer by the balls and get it made it needs to be far more ball-grabbing.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 17 2008, 1:03 PM BSTHi Bushbaby
I just had a look at the scene you posted a link to. Do you think the critism may because the characters are stereotypical?
Hi Dolly, I don't know, and this is the prob all new writers have I suppose.
I love gays particularly camp ones and I know a lot. I also like blacks, the [west indians] and the humour they have, I understand stereo type but don't know why there's an objection to them, when they are indeed part of real life.
I wonder too, if one writes a family sitcom, I mean featuring a family or a sitcom with students as the characters, one gets....old hat, too many sitcoms are like that.
One puts 'stereo type' characters in and gets...you can't have that etc infinitum 
If you can be bothered or good enough to read some more, this is later in the story. Everything is set for the party and the five have arrived to check it all before the guests arrive.
..................................................
LEEROY
Wow! This place is fit for a queen.
JON
He’ll be here later with the rest of the 10k.
(Man enters; he has the appearance of a city gent)
JON
Morning. Can I help you?
MR BIRTWISTLE
Let’s cut the niceties. Do you have licences for this venue?
JON
Licences?
MR BIRTWISTLE
That’s what I said.
JON
Licences as in what?
MR BIRTWISTLE
As in, alcohol, entertainment, music, nutriment.
JON
Leeroy?
LEEROY
Jon?
MARCIA
I’ll deal. Mr….er…
MR BIRTWISTLE
Birtwistle.
MARCIA (flirting)
Mr Birtwistle, let’s discuss this on the beach.
MR BIRTWISTLE
Beach, in Camden?
(Marcia points to the ‘beach’ and they both walk towards it and sit at a table. She winks at the others)
DEB (proudly)
That’s so Marcia, so masterful……so flirty
LEEROY
Man, how come you forgot the licences?
JON
How come I forgot the licences? Me? You talking to me? You were in charge of admin. Why am I surrounded by incompetence? Why me? Why me? I don’t need this. I’m a talented designer not some two bit pen pusher. God, next time round I’m going to make sure I come back as a snowman. At least when things get hot I can melt into oblivion like a….fart in the gloamin’. How come you fouled up the chickens?
LEEROY (Hurt)
I need to call my agent and get back into acting.
JON
Feel free.
(Jon hands him his mobile phone)
LEEROY (Gutted)
Ahh……(He speaks on mobile)
Do you want to buy 100 cooked chickens, two buckets of coleslaw, one naff turquoise shirt….
DEB
Stop it you lot. Listen, I thought this place was a brewery.
TEEJAY
Supposedly, but so what? The party’s off.
DEB
But they must have had a licence for booze.
JON (Thinks about it)
Do’ya know, you’re right. It’d only need the name changing.
TEEJAY
If it’s still in force.
(Fireman enters in full gear/axe/uniform)
TEEJAY
This is not a fancy dress.
FIREMAN
I’m working on it.
LEEROY
And its tickets only, we’ve already got a gatecrasher.
(He points to Birtwistle)
FIREMAN
I’ve come to inspect the fire equipment.
JON
Marcia! When you’ve finished in the licence department, can you deal with the fire? (Then, under his breath)
This is going to be one hell of a night.
FIREMAN
Is this where the party is being held?
JON
I don’t want to speculate.
(Marcia approaches with Birtwistle and points him to the door)
MARCIA
Sorted, we’ve got an arrangement.
JON
Great, what’s the arrangement?
MARCIA
Mind your own business. (All stare at her, it’s obvious some payment in kind has been offered)
JON
That’s entrapment.
MARCIA
Right Deb, your turn, I think you’re the best one to deal with the fireman.
(Deb looks startled and looks the fireman up and down)
DEB (to fireman)
I should warn you that I’m promised to another.
(He looks bewildered as she leads him away)
(Policeman enters.)
POLICEMAN
Afternoon all.
JON
Is this a conspiracy?
POLICEMAN
Let’s cut the niceties. Is that your white van parked on the double yellow?
LEEROY
The chickens!
POLICEMAN
Don’t get smart with me sonny. We all know chickens can’t drive.
TEEJAY
True, they’re road runners. (He sniggers) beep, beep.
(Policeman glares at Teejay then gets out his notebook)
MARCIA
Look officer…er…
POLICEMAN
PC Chicken
(All crack up laughing)
Quote: chipolata @ April 17 2008, 1:15 PM BSTDid you get that from a fortune cookie?
If you like mate.
I'm merely echoing all the good posts in this thread, but for me 'believable' doesn't have any meaning in most comedy barring a few.
I mean how many sitcom characters can you truly believe? The Royles? And that's probably it.
Of course in the correct world, as Perry says, Red Dwarf is believable. They're rounded characters, who react in a rounded way. Though I don't literally believe it because Kryten's a robot, and Cat is a . . . Well, a cat.
Believable really means rounded, identifiable, consistent.
I've not really added anything with this, have I? . . .
I'd also say I think sometimes that kind of critique is short hand for 'I just don't like it'. I'd ignore it and move on, as long as YOU are confident in it, that's all that matters.
Yeah, I know we're always being told "we don't want flat share sitcoms, we don't want sitcoms set in the media" etc and then that's exactly what seems to be getting made -though usually by well established names.
But back to your script; it's difficult to tell from such a short excerpt, but I found the Leeroy charcter was just 'black' with not much depth.
Maybe the procucers who looked at your script had a similar problem with the gay characters too? Maybe their ethnic background or sexuality is what's driving some of your characters in this script, rather than their personalities?
I'm not sure the Royles are that believable. They always seemed to me a rather romantacised rose-tinted spectacled version of the white working class. Great show, though.
I think there is a definite schism in comedy between naturalism (Lead Balloon, Extras, etc) and a more heightened overtly comic style (IT Crowd, Father Ted, etc).
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 17 2008, 1:39 PM BSTYeah, I know we're always being told "we don't want flat share sitcoms, we don't want sitcoms set in the media" etc and then that's exactly what seems to be getting made -though usually by well established names.
But back to your script; it's difficult to tell from such a short excerpt, but I found the Leeroy charcter was just 'black' with not much depth.
Maybe the procucers who looked at your script had a similar problem with the gay characters too? Maybe their ethnic background or sexuality is what's driving some of your characters in this script, rather than their personalities?
How do you define depth though Dolly. As I've said further up, twp pints is all quips. No depth at all.
Do you really think none of the characters in mine are any good then?
Sorry Bushbaby, missed the other excerpt you added to the post.
I find the female charcters stronger, even though they have less lines. Have you written anything with mainly female characters?
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 17 2008, 1:45 PM BSTSorry Bushbaby, missed the other excerpt you added to the post.
I find the female charcters stronger, even though they have less lines. Have you written anything with mainly female characters?
Yes, two comedy theatre plays that were produced on London fringe
We must be posting at the same time!
I'm not a Two Pints fan so I can't compare. I just found Leeroy (from the bit of the script I saw) to be about being black, rather than any other traits. Compare him to say, Johnson in Peep Show, who is also black but that isn't what his character is about. He's a bit of a OTT character in some ways, but the alpha-male, go-getter who talks management bollocks does comes from reality.
But again it's is really hard to get any sense of character from reading so little of a script because so much evolves throughout the half hour.
Quote: bushbaby @ April 17 2008, 1:46 PM BSTYes, two comedy theatre plays that were produced on London fringe
I think I'm much better at female characters. But it always make me think that writing stuff with central female characters will be seen as niche comedy - even though half the bloody population are female!
I think TV producers are probably increasingly leaning towards producing comedy with a more female bent. It's certainly not niche comedy any more.
There were four women in my plays.
The first one was about four siblings arguing as to which one should take in their alzheimer's mother.
The second one was four women in a private hospital awaiting cosmetic surgery the next day.
When the first play was produced, on the afternoon of the opening night, two people came from the council to check that the audience could get out in case of fire [the venue had only been a theatre for about 4 weeks] and were our props fireproof, they nearly closed the production down and that's where I got my idea in the sitcom of the authorities calling to inspect the premises/licenses etc
Chipolata - I hope not!
But when you think of all the comedies with central male characters compared to those with female leads, it's quite astonishing. But there has been more recently (Pulling, Sensitive Skin, Nighty Night, etc)
Don't forget Tittybangbang! Proving that women are just as capable as men of producing mindless dreck aimed at the lowest common denominator.