Believable Comedy Page 2

Quote: bushbaby @ April 17 2008, 9:38 AM BST

It's not Kjs because my massage parlour one would have been accepted but it was too risque at the time. My two spec scripts would have been accepted but Carolyne won't let anyone else write for Royle Family. I've had Andy Harris and Campbell the director of RF ringing me up asking if I have anything else.
It seems the beeb are the biggest culprits in saying 'it's not believable'

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I'm not saying your writing, per se, is bad, I'm saying that that particular script/situation/characters etc where not as well drawn as they could have been...

From what I remember of it, it was a bit 2D, the characters and the premis needed fleshing out etc...

kjs

Quote: manchester's trendy chorlton @ April 17 2008, 10:00 AM BST

You can have the most outlandish plot or surreal situation, but if the characters are written well enough, and are grounded in a genuine reality, then it will get made. probably the best example currently would be the mighty boosh.

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Exactly...

kjs

I'm not saying your writing, per se, is bad, I'm saying that that particular script/situation/characters etc where not as well drawn as they could have been...

From what I remember of it, it was a bit 2D, the characters and the premis needed fleshing out etc...

kjs

Maybe Kjs, but it was a hair's breadth of being accepted and if it hadn't been risque, who knows they would have advised where to cut/improve etc.
I did a lot of rewriting of it since you read it.
It was about a real person too, the main character, that is.
It just pisses me off to be told 'it's not believable'....other new ones I've submitted that is.

For me, a sitcom doesn't need to be believable, it has to make me laugh, that's all I'm interested in....a good laugh.
Father Ted is a good example but I suspect a new writer submitting that now wouldn't get past the first reader, as it would be unbelievable

So the question is then, Bushbaby, are there two levels of believability in your script? From what I've read of your stuff you've got a naturalistic turn of phrase, but the plot you've suggested sounds more conventional sitcom. Maybe the trick is to marry the two.

I disagree, I think Father Ted would get made. Personally, I dont find it funny - however, I can appreciate that the characters are well written, and that makes them 'real'. There's plenty of pretty out-there stuff that is getting made; if anything I might argue that there is more freedom now than ever...as long as the writing is good.

Quote: Griff @ April 17 2008, 10:24 AM BST

a sitcom doesn't need to be believable, it has to make me laugh

Yes but if something completely unbelievable and out of character happens, it won't make you laugh.

We laugh at Basil hitting Manuel because we know about their relationship. It's believable. But if Polly started being horrible to Manuel we'd just be mystified, and not laugh.

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I was about to say something very similar...

You only get laughter from the truthfulness of a situation... Look at Steptoe and Son, the father/son relationship was so well drawn it was at times painful to watch and yet hilariously funny at the same time...

kjs

Quote: Griff @ April 17 2008, 10:24 AM BST

a sitcom doesn't need to be believable, it has to make me laugh

Yes but if something completely unbelievable and out of character happens, it won't make you laugh.

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I think that's a very good point. It's how we define unbelievable. From the info we have, the 'unbelievable' stuff is about how characters behave, not the central premise. And for me, that could be the difficulty - beleivable characters behaving in an unbelievable manner.

Father Ted works differently, though. It's not unbelievable, it's surreal. Dougal seeing giant ants out the window is unbelievable. Whereas if Father Ted suddenly decided to shag Mrs Doyle, that would be unbelievable.

Quote: Antrax @ April 17 2008, 10:23 AM BST

So the question is then, Bushbaby, are there two levels of believability in your script? From what I've read of your stuff you've got a naturalistic turn of phrase, but the plot you've suggested sounds more conventional sitcom. Maybe the trick is to marry the two.

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Well, The one about the 10k, to me is believable where it starts with the five unemployed actors etc sitting round a table having just finished dinner. the Gay designer about 40ish, tells the others of the offer he's been given. [the others are 20-25ish] They all then set about finding premises [a disused brewery etc] The designer drapes flood damaged voile all round the room to make it look like a carib sea, etc etc. I can't see anything wrong with that idea but as Kjs suggested, the characters may have been two dimensional, but that's not what was said, it was said it was unbelievable and that no one would give 10k. The fact is, he wasn't 'giving' it, the cost of the party stuff cost 'em 8k. But in a sitcom world, surely 'we' believe that this is the deal...10k handed over for expense of a business party

Bushbaby, is this script available to view online somewhere?

Quote: manchester's trendy chorlton @ April 17 2008, 10:40 AM BST

Bushbaby, is this script available to view online somewhere?

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I can put it up but am afraid of getting bashed to bits now

Quote: bushbaby @ April 17 2008, 10:37 AM BST

Well, The one about the 10k, to me is believable where it starts with the five unemployed actors etc sitting round a table having just finished dinner. the Gay designer about 40ish, tells the others of the offer he's been given. [the others are 20-25ish] They all then set about finding premises [a disused brewery etc] The designer drapes flood damaged voile all round the room to make it look like a carib sea, etc etc. I can't see anything wrong with that idea but as Kjs suggested, the characters may have been two dimensional, but that's not what was said, it was said it was unbelievable and that no one would give 10k. The fact is, he wasn't 'giving' it, the cost of the party stuff cost 'em 8k. But in a sitcom world, surely 'we' believe that this is the deal...10k handed over for expense of a business party

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That's slightly missing the point though Bushbaby. I don't doubt the premise and plot is believable - what I'm asking you to think about is whether it matches the tone of the characters and the writing.

To explain what I mean, imagine the Royle Family characters in a Father Ted plot. It wouldn't work. The characters are believable, the plot is believable, but together they become unbelievable because there are different levels of reality. Now that's probably an extreme example, but it's something to think about. Are you writing Office style characters and dialogue, but with a My Family style plot? If you're writing micro-level characters, you have to have a micro-level plot.

Yes, put it up. If it gets made people are going to takes shots at it anyway, at least here it would be constructive. People might even like it!

Believabilty doesn't mean the premise of the sitcom, it's the sum of all its parts coming together in a cohesive, satisfying way. So for instance, Red Dwarf is believable because the characters react to the universe its set in faithfully. So it's feasible for Kryten and Rimmer to travel through a wormhole and land on a parallel Earth where time runs backwards, but that plotline would instantly fall apart if the usually-cowardly Rimmer saved the day by nobly sacrificing his own life to help his friends escape. We'd be left unsatisfied - not because of the outlandish plotline, but because sloppy writing had failed to convince us that this universe is real.

ok, I'm no good at links but hope this works... https://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/4361

Quote: Marc P @ April 17 2008, 9:41 AM BST

If my Grandmother had wheels she's be a wagon.

Believeable means in the Colereidge sense.. i.e. the willing suspension of disbelief.

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If my grandmother had balls she'd have been my grandad.