All the critters may be equal, but some are more equal than others.
Bit of a whinge on bad netiquette Page 4
BSG has got to be one of the most democratic forums I know of. Yes there are moderators, but rarely do they wave their naughty sticks. If you want to become a "uber poster," or similar creature. Then post worthwhile criticism on other's material. Put up entertaining material in the critique section. Suggest interesting stuff in other forums. be funny, wise, polite, and helpful, talk share and don't be bitter. After a while you too may be an unber poster. Maybe you'll get sent a badge, or a tshirt, or as I hope a 12 foot roof poster. With "I am an Uber poster written upon it,"
I want a Badge! No wait a t shirt!
Quote: Rob B @ March 17, 2008, 8:01 PMbut anyone who's had no real success and is really a bit shit must limit themselves to single positive words of encouragement.
Good idea.
Quote: wayne lewis @ March 17, 2008, 8:30 PMI want a Badge! No wait a t shirt!
You can't have one.
Shit, I'm posting off-topic 
I agree with Blenkinsop btw. I wish more people had actually bothered to read what he said rather than what they thought he'd said.
Well, we've had another bout of uncertainty on this in a recent thread - I'm talking about this one: https://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/6649/2
and whether or not the mods have seen fit to pass judgement to incorporate certain "rules" into what should or should not be passed as comment, I find it all a little confusing. Well, no, rather I find it *extremely* confusing. OK, people are allowed to change their minds - of course they are, but it all seems a little discordant. On the "critique as S&M" thread I called for considerate criticism (thoughtful criticism with reasons etc. as the ideal - not to be censorious, but as an ideal) and met with these responses:
Quote: Paul W @ February 5 2008, 9:17 PM GMTJames, if you post in the Critique forum expecting deep analysis and feedback with backing up we don’t promise that, we don't tell the BSG members what to post when they read peoples work, they can post what they want and be that an opinion or not, they can do it.
There aren't a large amount of experienced writers on the forum and there is a large volume of content posted in the critique everyday (so I'm thinking it's not that bad), so if anyone’s looking for better feedback, Marc Blake is only £75.
Quote: Paul W @ February 5 2008, 9:26 PM GMTIt's called Critique, yes, but either way, they can write pretty much what they like, at the end of the day James you have a problem with it, don't post in it again. Simple as that really.
Quote: Paul W @ February 5 2008, 9:56 PM GMTARGH!! Aaron, Aaron, Aaron! (and possibly Mark) Why when you were making this forum did you not consider all this!? you silly twats! We should change Critique to: "Various Opinions and err Random Views Forum".
Don't worry James I'm on it!
All of which seems rather at odds with:
Quote: Paul W @ April 11 2008, 11:17 AM BSTAgreed, keep to the originals and I have mentioned this in a fair view threads now, Stop making re-writes for peoples sketches, if you want to offer something like that please PM the writer!
It's in the critique rules so there is no excuse, I see repeat offenders I will be giving out warnings.
I mean, it seems *very* much at odds. Now, I genuinely don't have any vendetta or anything - I'd just rather feel I could post suggestions for follow-ups to an idea or ideas for improvement without being made to feel like a twat because of the received wisdom of the board when making intelligent suggestions - and feel people are being hypocritical (and I put many people in the same boat) when they say on one hand "the critique section is open for any comment" and on the other "except if you want to offer an improvement or continuation." I mean, this makes no sense whatsoever. This is wacko.
To explain my viewpoint:
Any "suggestion" should surely be allowed. To make any prohibition on the subject is surely too censorious. It's the way it's done, and the way it's dealt with, that are the bones of contention.
I'd say ALWAYS comment on the original sketch (and I'd say only make extended suggestions for sketches because longer pieces - e.g. sitcom scenes - are more tricky pieces, with characterisation, etc. to consider - but even then, suggestions should surely not be outlawed). And if then you have a suggestion for improvement, or more ideas to put into the pot for later sketches - why the f**k not? It's up to others to comment on the original as well as the suggested changes or proposed continuation sketch ideas - just to comment on the "suggestions" is plain rude, but this is not the fault of the person who posted the ideas!
It seems really, REALLY unbelievably and absurdly sad to me that such creativity is being stifled here.
I've had suggestions made for sketches I've posted that have improved the sketch 1000%. To outlaw such suggestions would be a crime. And ideas for later sketches fall into the same category. While it IS rude not to comment on the original piece for what it is, it's mind-bogglingly draconian to say one can't make suggestions for improvement or propose ideas for possible other sketches in a series.
Any suggestions for "improvement" or suggestions for other sketches on a theme do not detract from the original work. A sensible and professional writer learns to choose what to accept and what to ignore, but the "powers that be" on the board should not, IMO, deign to make this decision for them with such a heavy hand.
A lot of it smacks of precious writers being offended that others would (again) deign to take their work in a different direction or make any suggestion which is not in keeping with the original concept.
But surely they are still free to reject it.
The bottom line is,
I would say a far, far, far more sensible policy for the board would be to say "free speech for all" - but that all posters in critique MUST comment on the original piece.
I totally agree with James. I've had comments and ideas of different directions giving to some of my posts in critique, and have to admit that these have gotten me thinking and have I come up with some good stuff because of it.
When people post a comment on critique they should ALWAYS comment on the current sketch (good or bad), but then if they think it could benefit from something then why not be allowed to say so? How is that different from saying "that's shit because...."? Isn't it far more helpful to say "well perhaps if you changed this..." "Or if you added this...” IMO the least helpful critiques are the ones that say "yeah funny" or "that was good". Why were they funny? Why were they good? Some times they are genuine and some times they are back slapping for the sake of it.
Too be honest I say let it all hang out. Beyond death threats it's all ok.
ASnd that includes people calling me a c**t on controversial topics. It's very useful to know, how some topics can utterly piss people off.
If you don't want criticism, or rewrites, just say so in your original post, I'm sure it will be respected. In some areas of my writing I'm very confident, in other areas I know I have an awful lot to learn.
The idea that a few people with thin skins, and a need for approval, will mean I won't get the critical feed back that I need in these areas. That pisses me off a lot.
One of the first principles I apply to my work, is I am probably not as funny as I'd like to think I am. Some writers, could possibly take that on board. And if people don't comment on your work, it may just be not that memorable.
That is written by the guy with the highest 0 replies.
There's no hard and fast rules here, or if there are they can change over time - we just follow the general consensus - I guess Paul was reflecting the fact it seems some people now don't like re-writes on their sketches.
In summary, "free speech for all" is fine, but do think carefully before re-writing someone's sketch in public, as that seems to be a bit of a can of worms.
James, it's rare that mods actually meet to discuss - as a group - any policy let alone an agenda, due to distance and time constraints on ever meeting (in the eWorld or the real world). Because we can't always discuss in detail like a local committee, there will always be an overlap between one mod's 'acceptable' and another mod's 'unacceptable.' Plus we're human too, so our own individual decisions do vary over time.
I guess the issue is (and has always been) Blenkinsop's IMO correct assertion that a poster is looking for crit on the ORIGINAL sketch in any one Critique post. Some crit will involve "great" or "Not good" but some will go into detail, perhaps saying a line fails with maybe a suggestion for a 'better' line. BUT what has tended to happen in recent months is that other posters take it on themselves to rewrite whole sketches and then the crit revolves around the NEW sketch, not the original.
Personally, if you're rewriting a sketch I think a user needs to open a new thread, name the topic as Rewrite of ... with a link to the original sketch. Then the rewrite can gather crit without stealing attention from the original.
Quote: SlagA @ April 13 2008, 11:36 AM BSTPersonally, if you're rewriting a sketch I think a user needs to open a new thread, name the topic as Rewrite of ... with a link to the original sketch. Then the rewrite can gather crit without stealing attention from the original.
IMO that is far worse than "re writing" someone’s work in that person original thread. If people did think about going down that road then they should PM the person and ask if they minded first. Or alternatively PM them the re write and ask their opinion.
Quote: Mark @ April 13 2008, 10:11 AM BSTThere's no hard and fast rules here, or if there are they can change over time - we just follow the general consensus - I guess Paul was reflecting the fact it seems some people now don't like re-writes on their sketches.
That's what I was going for thank you Mark, if you read further on James, I mentioned that the person in question could PM the writer with a suggestion on said sketch.
Unfortunately I can't keep everyone happy as Slag mentioned we're only human, a lot of people have made it clear they don't want to have their sketches re-written, so I have stepped in a few times. Sooty said himself he didn't mind been called a c**t, I personally thought it was over stepping the line (and breaking rules) so again I stepped in, unfortunately Sooty didn't mention at the start of his sketch he was fine with being called a c**t.
To sum up, it's not 1930's Germany in any area of the forum, you are fine with having rewrites fine! Do re-writes in your underpants for all I care, if you're not, PM me or mention it in the thread, I will make a polite suggestion to save it. I hardly telling people to f**k off and write elsewhere.
Quote: SlagA @ April 13 2008, 11:36 AM BSTPersonally, if you're rewriting a sketch I think a user needs to open a new thread, name the topic as Rewrite of ... with a link to the original sketch. Then the rewrite can gather crit without stealing attention from the original.
Works for me.
PS - Wayne love the sig.
Quote: wayne lewis @ April 13 2008, 11:50 AM BSTIMO that is far worse than "re writing" someone’s work in that person original thread.
Linking back to the original thread would show other people that you're working with someone else's material - so you aren't then plagiarising or gathering laughs or a reputation from other people's hard work. Plus it frees the original thread from the clutter of other people's gags stealing the attention.
But that is just my opinion.
Another mods opinion - I agree with ALL the above.
I only get upset if I do not get many replies. I would rather have a string of really bad critiques than 2-4 good ones.
I try to read as many sketches as poss in the hope I get the same back.
Some of you are great & spend the time reading all the sketches.
The most appealing thing about this site for me anyway, is the fact you can stick something as personal as a sketch up & get honest feedback.
Sometimes though it all seems a waste of time.
I appreciate peeps are busy but I am too. I work 2 jobs, run a house, have a social life, write & spend time with my family. I still find the time.