You're right he let down at lot of people, but you have to remember that he latched onto Rick Mayall et al, he wasn't part of the original Comic Strip, nor did he have anything to do with the Comic Strip Presents, which to me, was at the heart of the movement. I mean look at Tony Allen the Godfather of alternative comedy, a brilliant stand up but hardly anyone remembers him. I just never saw Ben Elton as that cutting edge.
Quote: Pingl @ September 22 2012, 12:15 PM BSTYou're right he let down at lot of people, but you have to remember that he latched onto Rick Mayall et al, he wasn't part of the original Comic Strip, nor did he have anything to do with the Comic Strip Presents, which to me, was at the heart of the movement. I mean look at Tony Allen the Godfather of alternative comedy, a brilliant stand up but hardly anyone remembers him. I just never saw Ben Elton as that cutting edge.
I wrote that earlier, sometimes we reflect something onto certain people: "Oh, Beln Elton, the great liberator, fighter for free speech...". How did he get that reputation? I don't think he has that much charisma. Was it pure luck/coincidence?
Right place, right time, wrong person.
On the other hand, Rik Mayall doesn't seem to mature at all. He has the same teenage behaviour as ever but without being cutting edge anymore and without the manical energy of the old days. He is like a sad old loser that tries to conservate his youth having lost the plot completely...and he sold himself to the TV advert "circuit".
I hope this "Hooligan's Island" thing breathes new life into him...but I doubt that.
Quote: Gordon Bennett @ September 22 2012, 12:33 PM BSTOn the other hand, Rik Mayall doesn't seem to mature at all. He has the same teenage behaviour as ever but without being cutting edge anymore and without the manical energy of the old days. He is like a sad old loser that tries to conservate his youth having lost the plot completely...and he sold himself to the TV advert "circuit".
I hope this "Hooligan's Island" thing breathes new life into him...but I doubt that.
Don't think the quad bike accident and subsequent medication has helped....
Quote: Pingl @ September 22 2012, 12:15 PM BSTTony Allen the Godfather of alternative comedy, a brilliant stand up but hardly anyone remembers him.
Perhaps he should have sold out?
These guys are just entertainers, trying to make a crust - I don't think we should begrudge them a few bob
Quote: Lazzard @ September 22 2012, 12:39 PM BSTDon't think the quad bike accident and subsequent medication has helped....
Perhaps he should have sold out?
These guys are just entertainers, trying to make a crust - I don't think we should begrudge them a few bob
yea that was point really
Quote: Pingl @ September 22 2012, 12:43 PM BSTyea that was point really
On re-reading your post I can see that.
Quote: Lazzard @ September 22 2012, 12:39 PM BSTThese guys are just entertainers, trying to make a crust - I don't think we should begrudge them a few bob
Exactly, but some of us want to see more in them than just entertainers, we don't want to face the reality. And when they make certain more commercial careersteps then they blow our illusion. I know it's a bit naive...but sometimes you have to dream.
If Bruce Springsteen made a duet with Christina Aguilera covering a Jay-Z song he would disappoint me, and destroy my picture of him. I know it's naive...I'm 35 
You're absolutely right...and I already knew that. But everytime one of my heroes "sells out"=Bang! goes another dream.
I'm not saying that Ben Elton was my hero.
The secret I always think is not to have heroes, just have people whose work you respect. We are all fallible. If you stop respecting their work then just take what you liked and keep that. Tony Hancock was ruined for me for quite a while when I got to know too much about Hancock the person. Now I just stick to the work and enjoy it more than ever.
"The World Needs A Hero" sing Megadeth. Some of us seek help and comfort in religion others need heroes/stars. Yesterday we talked about casting shows, they produce "stars" on an assembly line. I don't want that.
I want mine to be mysterious...and most of all good. But writing musicals isn't mysterious nor good.
You're right. It's better not to have heroes.
Mind you I do like Fiddler on the Roof.
He certainly seems to be getting a lot of personal comeback for his blustery outspoken early career and faux radicalism. A talented but tactless guy, he stormed in on the scene, arrogantly assumed a role only someone with the moral fibre of a saint could continue forever, while brashly trampling on other comedians' turf, before what? Becoming the new messiah as it seemed he really wanted to be?
Not quite, despite becoming the Beeb's newest idol for a while, he messed that up with an overly crude prime time comedy slot that mixed smut with female obsessed observational comedy that bordered on the sexist, bizarre for the most outspoken leader of the right on non sexist non racist new comedy movement a few years earlier.
Then the rot really started to set in as he became more isolated, took to writing lucrative novels, became more and more detached from his early radical persona, fell in completely with the establishment, which included a brazen tribute to Ronnie Corbett, followed by an equally brazen attempt at pennance for killing Benny Hill's career and reputation. If he'd had a single ounce of Hill's integrity and authenticitity he wouldn't've been judged as such a slippery opportunistic hypocritical comedy shyster.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ September 22 2012, 1:17 PM BSTThen the rot really started to set in as he became more isolated, took to writing lucrative novels, became more and more detached from his early radical persona, fell in completely with the establishment, which included a brazen tribute to Ronnie Corbett, followed by an equally brazen attempt at pennance for killing Benny Hill's career and reputation. If he'd had a single ounce of Hill's integrity and authenticitity he wouldn't've been judged as such a slippery opportunistic hypocritical comedy shyster.
Yea I must admit the Benny Hill thing was unforgivable. The way he has tried to slime his way out of it, unappealing. But many climb on the shoulders of giants.
I always thought Mr Elton started to lose it when he went from furiously-paced Motormouth to BBC-friendly Man From Auntie. Very disappointed in that series, especially the first one... He would, in the words of Melanie C, Never Be The Same Again. Listen to his first two cassettes and compare them to a random episode and you'll see what I mean.
Benji deserves credit for making the Young Ones pilot filmable and the stunning Happy Families! I'm in the minority of one but I never cared for Blackadder, all those convoluted put-downs my school-'mates' still quote 25 years on. Zzzzzzzz
Never really got the hate thing with Ben Elton. It seems to be something about him being a rebel when he was younger, and then daring to mellow with age. We all slow down. I'm wearing slippers now.