Quote: SlagA @ January 6, 2008, 6:09 PMI think what Jerf means is that the 'cowardice' comes in when a comedian knocks Christians and Jews etc but won't knock the Muslims because he doesn't want his head on a stick.
That is a problem. It does remind me of a Stephen Fry gag that went, "People tend to mock things they don't understand. That's why they mock John Major being Prime Minister. No-one can understand how it happened."
I think it also comes down to hypocrisy and the 'holier than thou' attitude of some people too.
I have noticed that some folks will quite readily shout 'racist' or 'sexist' but will go around being ageist quite blythely thinking it's OK and doesn't matter!
If you are against one -ism, be consistent and be against all -isms!
Or better still, be even be more adult about it and recognise the difference between comedy as opposed to real life prejudice.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ January 6, 2008, 3:47 PMHaving a go at religion is, I would say, also quite different to having a go at someone because theyre black; if you think its the same then youre just wrong.
In this day and age, with who knows what nasty things being done in the name of whatever god/gods you believe in, I think pricking the bubble of religious pomposity and hypocrisy is an important thing to do. Anyone unshakable in their own beliefs shouldnt be at all offended or worried by something some stranger says.
So it's OK to have a go at someones religion but not their race? I disagree. For many people their religion is far more important than their race. Also, I can't see a problem in having a go at someones race OR religion if it is done for comedic purposes (as opposed to instilling hatred).
I do tend to avoid race, sexuality and Islam now though because the people who get upset about that kind of thing are often so juvenile in their views, I just don't want the hassle. Race is not much of an issue for me anyway because my family is multi-racial and any form of organised religion is lost on me as I think they have all got it quite wrong!
Let's be consistent and make fun of anybody who is uptight about their race, religion, sexuality, class, age, status or physicality! Or none of those, but you can't say one is OK and the others aren't.
SlagA That's exactly what I mean. After watching it again, the Bruce Forsyth video is very good.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ January 6, 2008, 7:08 PMSo it's OK to have a go at someones religion but not their race? I disagree. For many people their religion is far more important than their race. Also, I can't see a problem in having a go at someones race OR religion if it is done for comedic purposes (as opposed to instilling hatred).
Yes, its ok to have a go at a religion, no, its not ok to joke about the fact someone is black, purple or yellow. Ideas can be mocked, any idea. If you think the two are the same then theres not anything Im going to say that will show you otherwise. Racism is bad, about sums it up though. This only relates to denigrating jokes of course. If your 'having a go' at someone because of the colour of their skin, then its wrong. The very term 'having a go' suggests you would be instilling hatred and inviting people to ridicule someone because of their colour. Perhaps your choice of words was just a poor one there.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ January 6, 2008, 7:39 PMYes, its ok to have a go at a religion, no, its not ok to joke about the fact someone is black, purple or yellow. Ideas can be mocked, any idea. If you think the two are the same then theres not anything Im going to say that will show you otherwise. Racism is bad, about sums it up though. This only relates to denigrating jokes of course. If your 'having a go' at someone because of the colour of their skin, then its wrong. The very term 'having a go' suggests you would be instilling hatred and inviting people to ridicule someone because of their colour. Perhaps your choice of words was just a poor one there.
Yes 'having a go' may have been a bad choice of words if you are going to interpret it that way. I would not myself equate 'having a go' as instilling hatred, I meant in a jovial kind of way. Racism is of course bad. But jokes about race are not racist if they do not proclaim one race superior to another. However, there is so much over-sensitivity about race now that the whole thing has become a mine field - and who wants to blow their foot off?
Everything you need to know about the good book, it's all right here...
http://www.superdeluxe.com/sd/contentDetail.do?id=D81F2344BF5AC7BB77D6A0E55069BD0A9B3A52CB005FA7D7
I would never treat religion and race/sexuality the same. You can choose your beliefs but not your colour or sexuality.
Attacking a belief system is fine. Attacking a person isn't.
P.S. I've noticed Jerf hasn't graced us with any jokes about the Qu-ran yet. Is he a hypocrite?
Quote: ajp29 @ January 6, 2008, 9:07 PMI would never treat religion and race/sexuality the same. You can choose your beliefs but not your colour or sexuality.
Attacking a belief system is fine. Attacking a person isn't.
You think attacking a belief system is fine. Millions of people don't. So who is right? Also, not everyone can choose their beliefs. You may be able to, but millions can't, not without putting themselves at risk of one degree or another, right up to life threatening!
Also, making jokes about a persons race or sexuality isn't attacking them, it's making a joke. Btw I am talking about race, not skin colour.
You can choose what you believe in. It may result in you being burnt/stoned/beheaded but you still can.
But I see your point. Certainly if the race in question is a majority or rich and powerful then theres no harm in jokes about them e.g the English (I can see Aarons eyes rolling). I suppose it all depends on the comdeian and whether you agree with their politics.
Quote: ajp29 @ January 6, 2008, 11:55 PMYou can choose what you believe in. It may result in you being burnt/stoned/beheaded but you still can.
But I see your point. Certainly if the race in question is a majority or rich and powerful then theres no harm in jokes about them e.g the English (I can see Aarons eyes rolling). I suppose it all depends on the comdeian and whether you agree with their politics.
I think jokes about race are always questionable. But I think it is possible to tell jokes about race that are not racist. It's a moot point really, I just don't like it when people cry 'racist' over petty issues or honest mistakes.
It is important to remember also that some so-called black people are racist against so-called white people or other races, including other 'black' races. Real racism and racial prejudice are dreadful and those guilty of it deserve appropriate and harsh penalties, irrespective of which race they personally belong to or what their skin colour is.
--------------------------------------------
So sorry Ian for hijacking your thread...
Religion?
It always opens up a can of worms!
Interesting thoughts here. Where do you draw the line regarding a race joke?
For instance the following joke:
How do you stop a black guy from mugging you?
Throw him a basketball.
You could say that its racist as it reinforces stereotypes but when I first heard this I laughed at it.I wouldnt describe myself as racist however.
(Signed David Duke)
There has to be some common sense when it comes to race and humour. And, of course race will always be an area in which humour is found whether people like it or not. Racism exists, and will continue to exist. Me laughing at the above joke wont change anything.
Quote: Nigel Kelly @ January 7, 2008, 12:32 AMInteresting thoughts here. Where do you draw the line regarding a race joke?
For instance the following joke:How do you stop a black guy from mugging you?
Throw him a basketball.You could say that its racist as it reinforces stereotypes but when I first heard this I laughed at it.I wouldnt describe myself as racist however.
(Signed David Duke)
There has to be some common sense when it comes to race and humour. And, of course race will always be an area in which humour is found whether people like it or not. Racism exists, and will continue to exist. Me laughing at the above joke wont change anything.
I pretty much agree with you. I think common sense, decency, courtesy and also context comes into it. I know a few 'black' guys who would laugh WITH you and I at that joke in the right context and there would be no apparent problem. However, I probably wouldn't ever tell that joke and certainly not in the presence of people I didn't know (black, white, orange, purple or teal) as I wouldn't want to risk offence.
Racial sensitivities have become irrational for many otherwise rational individuals and that's where your own common sense can apply. But in my experience, jokes like this only reinforce racial stereotypes to those who already have those stereotypes ingrained in them by life itself, bad personal experience, bad home life, attitudes of parents and peers, poor education, etc. as opposed to jokes they might have heard.
I've finally posted my final thoughts.
