Banning stick to the ready SlagA! Love the recent video btw.
FLAT - My latest attempt at a TV sitcom. Page 12
No 
No banning stick. Just want to avoid it veering into areas other than crit. 
Cheers for the vid comment to Jacparov 
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 6:58 PMYou're probably an excellent bloke.
No, Im a c**t.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 4, 2008, 7:59 PMNo, Im a c**t.
Anyone seconding that
Matt, is a top bloke, in all seriousness. The Slaggs are big fans.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 6:43 PMIf we divide the world's population very broadly into idiots and non-idiots, it's fair to say that when a non-idiot is asked for advice by someone who consistently rejects and derides that advice, he'll probably cease to offer advice to that person, right?
On that basis, it's likely that James's writing will eventually be reviewed only by idiots.
I'm sure you're a comedy expert but logic is not your strong suit!!
All this heat is amusing.
Incidentally I feel my script is a strong one, and indeed better than some stuff on TV (but then that wouldn't be hard). For anyone who just thinks it's crap: we'll agree to disagree. I've not picked my script apart because I've not wanted to appear reactionary or tedious, but if anyone really wants to tell me *why* they think the script is crap - and give proper reasons, quoting things that didn't work - then feel free to PM me, and we can have a discussion on what we think makes a good comedy script. I like to give detailed crit on sitcom scripts - I think it's necessary. I like a good discussion on writing but this thread is really filling neither criteria.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 6:43 PMit's likely that James's writing will eventually be reviewed only by idiots.
What do you mean EVENTUALLY?
I am of course referring to my own effort. 
And so this thread rolls on!!
Apologies to people who may feel annoyed that this thread is attracting undue attention.
Incidentally, I would be interested to chew over why I think Chimes of Freedom's redraft of scene one is inferior if anyone who thinks it's better cares to post an analysis saying why.
COF has told me point-blank that I can't write comedy (not entirely helpful "criticism" - but then, perhaps the best advice a crap writer can receive!!) but I am genuinely amazed that COF and Seefacts think the suggested redraft is much better, and I think it signifies a major difference in how we read scripts.
Also I think fans of the "gag" may prefer this script of mine:
https://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/3818#80611
I'd be interested to see if COF thinks this is crap too, because IMO it's more standard fare (i.e. more readily accessible) and executed competently.
The series is by me and my writing partner Rob but this particular episode is written wholly by me.
Much love.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 10:08 PMWhere?
When?
I don't remember saying that.
I got that impression from these sorts of comments:
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 7:42 PMWhen a large number of people (with no axe to grind) tell you you're not funny and nobody's telling you you ARE, you don't need a professional opinion. You need to listen to advice.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 6:58 PMThis is a comedy forum and therefore people are likely to say funny things occasionally. Not James, of course, but 'people' in general.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 3, 2008, 10:38 PMYou have very great potential as a comedy performer.
Your potential as a writer is less obvious to me.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 8:05 PMSadly, if there's nothing funny about your script, you're f**ked.
Comments like this left me with the general impression that that's what you thought. I understand that maybe you were exaggerating for comic effect or were talking in general.
It doesn't matter anyway; people are entitled to their opinion. You're entitled to not like the script. It's irrelevant.
I guess I've just been conditioned somehow to like debate. I would be interested to hear what the people who don't like this script think of my other script. If you don't want to bump the thread PM me - if you can spare the time, of course. I don't intend to debate anything on the Sail Away thread as it's clearly frowned upon.
Quote: James Williams @ February 4, 2008, 9:55 PMAlso I think fans of the "gag" may prefer this script of mine:
https://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/3818#80611
I'd be interested to see if COF thinks this is crap too, because IMO it's more standard fare (i.e. more readily accessible) and executed competently.
Knowing how touchy you are and having no wish to offend you, I won't say it's 'crap'.
I will however say it seems exceedingly thin on both laughs and plot. I say 'seems' because I didn't read it all. I read about two screens' worth before losing the will to . . . er . . . read.
Look. I'll give you a little master class in comedy writing based on your own script.
You've got a group of people on some sort of sailing expedition. They don't appear to be expert sailors.
You have:
"CASS: . . . and there’s a good chance we’ll be famous.
F/X: THUNDER
PETE: There’s a good chance we won’t come back alive."
Okay, that's got a bit of humour in it based on Pete's comedic use of Cass's just-used expression 'there's a good chance . . .' but would you like to make it really funny?
Here's how I'd write it:
"CASS: . . . and there’s a good chance we’ll come back famous.
F/X: THUNDER
PETE: There’s a good chance we won’t come back at ALL !"
Now that, my prickly little friend, is FUNNY!
Go on, tell me your version is better!
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 10:26 PMKnowing how touchy you are and having no wish to offend you, I won't say it's 'crap'.
I will however say it seems exceedingly thin on both laughs and plot. I say 'seems' because I didn't read it all. I read about two screens' worth before losing the will to . . . er . . . read.
Yes. You have certainly been sensitive knowing how 'touchy' I am .
And to be honest the jokes read about the same to me. I know that particular joke isn't a side-splitter, by the way. It's more to show up Pete and Cass's personalities.
Quote: Chimes of Freedom @ February 4, 2008, 10:26 PMLook. I'll give you a little master class in comedy writing based on your own script.
PETE: There’s a good chance we won’t come back at ALL !"
Now that, my prickly little friend, is FUNNY!
Go on, tell me your version is better!
And people on here call me arrogant. I don't *really* think this is a sensitive way to couche advice.
OK, your version might be a bit funnier. It's certainly more formulaic. I'm not sure which is better TBH. There are, of course, a number of ways you could rework that joke. I don't really think you're being helpful in any case. I certainly don't care to be patronised in this manner - I mean, who on Earth do you think you are?
I think it might be time to be completely serious for a moment.
Sometimes, I say potentially offensive things for comedic effect.
Sometimes, my humour offends people unintentionally.
Sometimes, however, I offend people by telling them the truth about their writing. They are often shocked because many sycophants have told them they're exceptionally good writers when they are, in fact, very very mediocre indeed.
I've seen you on YouTube and I genuinely believe that, with the right material, you could be a major player on the comedy performance scene. When you're not reading a script (i.e. when you're being YOU), you are the sort of guy audiences will queue around the block to see. Television would LOVE you.
However, I have to say that your writing does not entertain me. That's not to say you're crap. It's just to say your writing's not good at the moment. Maybe you see wonderfully funny scenes in your head but just can't translate them to paper in a way that enables others to see what you see? Who knows?
My most earnest advice to you is 'Get some good comedy material and use it as the basis of a stage act'. Why spend hours and hours writing comedy for peanuts when you can be on stage or TV performing it for megabucks?
You know it makes sense.
I'm new to this thread - what did I miss?
Is there something to critique hidden among the 13 pages, or is the thread a comedy routine in itself?
Oooo, bitchy! I propose you finish this dispute once and for all, in a manner that only men can: wrestling naked on a bed of whipped cream and jelly for zooo and Ellie's amusement.
Was it bitchy? Maybe.
But more to the point is that it's plain rude the way some of the people offering critique have been treated in this thread. One poster (apologies - I forget who) went to the effort of rewriting a scene with a suggestion as to how they thought it might be improved.
The response was to be told that his added jokes weren't funny, the text was flabby and the characterisation unrealistic. James bristles at any tiny criticism of his own work, yet is more than happy to apply a size 10 boot to other people's suggestions.
In a previous job working for a paper I had to commission writers. There are plenty of talented writers out there and often it's hard to choose between them. The ones who tend to get repeat work are the ones who are reliable, work to your remit and are willing to make reasonable alterations to keep yopu happy - after all, you're paying their wage. The ones who throw their toys out the pram don't get invited back.
Just a thought.
Quote: Barbs @ February 4, 2008, 11:45 PMWas it bitchy? Maybe.
But more to the point is that it's plain rude the way some of the people offering critique have been treated in this thread. One poster (apologies - I forget who) went to the effort of rewriting a scene with a suggestion as to how they thought it might be improved.
The response was to be told that his added jokes weren't funny, the text was flabby and the characterisation unrealistic. James bristles at any tiny criticism of his own work, yet is more than happy to apply a size 10 boot to other people's suggestions.
In a previous job working for a paper I had to commission writers. There are plenty of talented writers out there and often it's hard to choose between them. The ones who tend to get repeat work are the ones who are reliable, work to your remit and are willing to make reasonable alterations to keep yopu happy - after all, you're paying their wage. The ones who throw their toys out the pram don't get invited back.
Just a thought.
The distinction is that I'm not working for a commission off "Chimes Of Freedom", who proposed the changes, and he's not my editor. Nor is he, to my knowledge, paying me a wage.
As a journalist I know full well that you have to expect your copy to be put through the mill.
I also know from working in other capacities (i.e. not media groups but local newsletters etc. run by essentially amateurs) that people who think they can write a news story can edit your article *completely* inappropriately. This doesn't really bother me; I just swallow it - when I'm *working* for someone in that capacity
*This* is an informal discussion.
As for my response to the proposed rewrite, I actually said:
Quote: James Williams @ February 3, 2008, 8:48 PMThanks for taking the time to suggest improvements.
However IMO the changes you suggest make the piece neither funnier nor more interesting.
Apart from not getting the voices quite right (e.g. Jim's WAY too wordy), TBH these "jokes" are exactly the sort of nonsense I am trying to avoid.
It doesn't sit right. Thanks though.
It's not rude and it's my opinion.
You are descending the conversation, Barbs, into personal attacks. It's ridiculous. I'm trying to talk about a script and people like yourselves wish to make it personal and criticise me for daring to have an opinion on my own bloody script.
I don't see how any of this is relevant to the thread. I don't see how my disagreeing with some random guy's crit is "throwing my toys out of the pram". The suggestion that I have to agree with every criticism levelled at me is absurd and contradictory.
And the comment that I "bristle at any criticism" is patently bollocks. I have listened to a lot of it and tried to make appropriate changes.
I would advise people who don't know what's going on to read the whole thread, or better, just read the bloody script. >_< If you still have something catty and personal to say take it elsewhere!