Doctor Who... Page 920

Quote: sootyj @ December 28 2012, 6:12 PM GMT

Tenant and ecclestone were the best poor old smith was saddled with terrible storied by and large

At the end of waters of Mars his Dr had been such a cock I thought the captain was going to shoot him more than I can say for the others

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Eccleston's tenure wasn't long enough to make such an assertion. I think he had the making of a truly great Doctor, but one series wasn't long enough to judge. Tennent was OK but I prefer Smith. Many of the accusations of story arc overplay could be levelled at Tennent's era, the whole Billy Piper thing, and the final Tennent shows were in my opinion maudlin and over inflated without humour. Martha and her family were dull and a cul de sac, Donna I liked but even her story became convoluted. I'm hoping with this special a break is being made with the big bad wolf school of writing and a less complicated more traditional tone being developed. I have my doubts though, but I live in hope.

Quote: sootyj @ December 28 2012, 12:55 PM GMT

And for heavens sake stop making old Who out to be some wonderland of amazing telly. It was a jolly scifi romp with a favourite magical uncle.

Most of the stories were poor, overlong, badly written, excitedly acted and required much sympathy for its wonky effects.

Yeh it was fun, but c'mon name one absolute stand out episode or series?

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We've been here many times Sooty. I'll name them and you'll just say it's crap. What's the point? The best of so-called 'classic' Who is very good indeed, and series excels in a number of areas and was recognised as exceptional in its time. it's also fifty years old and cannot be watched as if it was a modern show.

Ironically much recent Who is patterned on some of this old stuff, in particular the early John Pertwee era so it's not the case that I think it was always better in the past.

Moffat has also done some good things, particularly his creation of the headless monks and the weeping angels and his inspired casting of Matt Smith, but he falls down in too many areas to have such a large input in the show.

He's not a good writer - he really isn't - his forte is smutty one-liners and his stories are not living, breathing narratives so much as chain-linked set-pieces. It's all very cold, distant and tricksy.

Now we have another pointless season arc coming in the search for the soufflé girl, which sounds like a bad episode of Madmen. When it's over and Moffat has finished pulling his head and whirling bow tie out through his arse, what will he have done? Introduced a new female companion.

And he could have done that in one scene.

The old shows have to be judged according to the time they were made, Troughton was made in the middle of first real forays into space and the fascination with all things space and space travel. Pertwee was heavily influenced by ecology and gadgetry, Baker was basically Sherlock Holmes in space with jelly babies, Davidson was the vulnerable Doctor, the others were crap and the death toll for a series that was both tired and past its best. The reboot is slicker and more polished, but for imagination and original ideas it still relies on those first thought of fifty years ago.

Quote: Pingl @ December 28 2012, 7:26 PM GMT

Eccleston's tenure wasn't long enough to make such an assertion. I think he had the making of a truly great Doctor, but one series wasn't long enough to judge.

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I think when Ecclestone was being serious and intense he was great and could wipe the floor with any Doctor. Unfortunately he was terrible at doing the children's party entertainer grinning and gurning that also seems to be required of Who.

Tennant could do both very well. And Smith's not bad at both either, although I don't think he's been stretched during his time so it's hard to really judge him.

Quote: chipolata @ December 28 2012, 10:41 PM GMT

I think when Ecclestone was being serious and intense he was great and could wipe the floor with any Doctor. Unfortunately he was terrible at doing the children's party entertainer grinning and gurning that also seems to be required of Who.

Tennant could do both very well. And Smith's not bad at both either, although I don't think he's been stretched during his time so it's hard to really judge him.

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Yes Eccleston didn't look comfortable at doing the gurning or the lighter stuff, I never really understood why he wanted the part considering he backed out after one series and virtually renounced the whole thing afterwards. Paterson Joseph was my choice for the Tenneant part, I believe he was seen, I think he would of made a great Who. I liked Tennant but was never a huge fan, although there is no doubt he is the one who assured Who's longevity

Quote: Pingl @ December 28 2012, 10:48 PM GMT

Yes Eccleston didn't look comfortable at doing the gurning or the lighter stuff, I never really understood why he wanted the part considering he backed out after one series and virtually renounced the whole thing afterwards.

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I think he probably did it because he'd worked with Russell T Davies before. But it did indeed seem a very uncomfortable fit at times.

Quote: chipolata @ December 28 2012, 10:51 PM GMT

I think he probably did it because he'd worked with Russell T Davies before. But it did indeed seem a very uncomfortable fit at times.

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But didn't want to again. Can't think why.

Quote: Marc P @ December 28 2012, 11:10 PM GMT

But didn't want to again. Can't think why.

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Although RTD Pre-Who was quite an interesting writer.
Post-Who he's...well, not so interesting.

I never said that

What's the betting he ends back at Who God save us

Quote: Marc P @ December 28 2012, 11:18 PM GMT

I never said that

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What?

Quote: chipolata @ December 28 2012, 11:20 PM GMT

What?

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Reboot

Quote: Jinky @ December 28 2012, 1:04 PM GMT

New Who (especially Tennant) beats nearly all of Old Who hands down.

But the Matt Smith era has seen a very rapid decline in quality. The 2012 Christmas episode felt like badly-written fanfic compared to, say, the 2008 episode. Which is no surprise, as the Matt Smith plots have been very muched aimed at the fanboys.

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Have you seen Inferno, Horror of Fang Rock, Robots of Death, Dalek Invasion of Earth or The Mind Robber?

Are you telling me that Fear Her, Love and Monsters, Gridlock, or Turn Left, are better than the worst of Classic Who?

I thought Gridlock was quite good. That's the one with Father Dougal as a cat isn't it? And at the end there was that massive face thing?

I'm watching old Who right now (got up to Tom Baker) and while in general I'm really enjoying it, the bad episodes are f**king terrible.