The logic is fine, even if it is an old, old trope.
The problem is you can't have your "goodbye fatso and baby I need to die, I'm so old blah blah..!" cake
and your
and your "ha I fooled time and death and that old bag in the eye patch, yah boo sucks existence!" eat it
Not unless you won't a tonal mess, with all the consistency of Agatha Christie hiding behind a door with a bucket of custard.
Quote: Marc P @ October 2 2011, 11:36 PM BSTOpen jawed here. Isn't a fixed point something that happens rather than something that doesn't?
Something DID happen. I've already explained it; the events we saw in the last episode WERE the fixed point, it was what always happened. We and everyone else thought it was the Doctor dying, but it never was, it was exactly as we saw. The SIlence had made it so the events on that beach at that time would be a fixed point; but The Doctor cheated them, so his death was never what happened. The first episode of the series always showed what we saw in the final episode.
Quote: KLRiley @ October 3 2011, 7:05 AM BSTMoff fudged it. If a fixed point is supposed to be a fixed point then destroying the robot doesn't solve the problem because the fixed point is the Doctor's death.
Nope, that's just what it was meant to be, and what the Doctor made it look like it was; he never died at any point, so his death was never the fixed point.
At no point, in any episode, on that beach did he actually die, he was always inside that robot thing, so his death cannot be the fixed point.
Once you realise that, that the Doctor never died, that he always cheated The Silence, then it all fits together just fine.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ October 3 2011, 9:00 AM BSTOnce you realise that, that the Doctor never died, that he always cheated The Silence, then it all fits together just fine.
Then I think you and I have not only watched different episodes but a different series. There has been a computer screen showing the date of the Doctor's death all the way through.
However, I can see that we aren't going to agree on this so if you want to come back, that's your prerogative but I agree with sootyj on this. You can't have the Doctor whining on about being so old and wanting to go and then pull metaphorical rabbits out of hats in flashback sequences.
Quote: KLRiley @ October 3 2011, 9:15 AM BSTThen I think you and I have not only watched different episodes but a different series. There has been a computer screen showing the date of the Doctor's death all the way through.
Yes, because, in the end, that's exactly what it looked like, so it's what people recorded as having happened. And the Doctor didn't then go 'ah-ha, fooled you!' He let them think he did die. He's slipping into the shadows, letting everyone think he did actually die. As he says, he got too big, too noisy. It does all make sense, there is no fudge, it's all there.
Whether or not you liked what was done, that's another matter, but it does make sense.
It doesn't make sense when you realise Moff has been going on for ages about how the Doctor really does die, absolutely honestly.
Quote: Badge @ October 3 2011, 9:52 AM BSTIt doesn't make sense when you realise Moff has been going on for ages about how the Doctor really does die, absolutely honestly.
As he said, he lies all the time, such as when he said no returning baddies.
Oh well that's ok then. Not a good role model for the kids though Matthew! 
Since the tesalector crew were helping him they are likely the ones who recorded him dead.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ October 3 2011, 9:24 AM BSTYes, because, in the end, that's exactly what it looked like, so it's what people recorded as having happened. And the Doctor didn't then go 'ah-ha, fooled you!' He let them think he did die. He's slipping into the shadows, letting everyone think he did actually die. As he says, he got too big, too noisy. It does all make sense, there is no fudge, it's all there.
Whether or not you liked what was done, that's another matter, but it does make sense.
Okay got it now.
So only the problem of what did River whisper to the doctor when he first met her, as he apparently didn't whispet his real name?
Quote: Matthew Stott @ October 3 2011, 9:24 AM BSTYes, because, in the end, that's exactly what it looked like, so it's what people recorded as having happened. And the Doctor didn't then go 'ah-ha, fooled you!' He let them think he did die. He's slipping into the shadows, letting everyone think he did actually die. As he says, he got too big, too noisy. It does all make sense, there is no fudge, it's all there.
Whether or not you liked what was done, that's another matter, but it does make sense.
Yes but he's a time traveller. Are we to assume he never travels to a point further than that in time again then? Because we already know he has done.
Quote: Marc P @ October 3 2011, 12:37 PM BSTYes but he's a time traveller. Are we to assume he never travels to a point further than that in time again then? Because we already know he has done.
I'm not sure how it would affect his time travelling? He's not dead, so I assume he'll carry on zipping backwards and forwards as he pleases. The end suggested that he may now do so in a quiter way though, less 'oncoming storm' lonely God stuff, more shadowy mad man in a box, travelling around.
Well that's good then!
Quote: dannyjb1 @ October 3 2011, 12:32 PM BSTSo only the problem of what did River whisper to the doctor when he first met her, as he apparently didn't whispet his real name?
Wasn't his name on the cot he gave Amy an Rory and River could read that?
If not, prsumably he tells her later.
A lot of over-earnest plot analysing going on here.
Anyone who has seen the very fine satire 'Thankyou for Smoking' will know you can smoke in outer space because of 'the thing.'
That is why the Dr never dies because you just write a couple of lines in your lunchbreak explaining how he was saved by the time-continuum reverse-polarity thing or whatever.
Quote: youngian @ October 3 2011, 2:05 PM BSTA lot of over-earnest plot analysing going on here.
Not really, just looking at what actually happened.