British Comedy Guide

Doctor Who... Page 742

Quote: chipolata @ May 29 2011, 8:11 AM BST

If clones aren't sentient in some way why at the end did the miners go to Mining HQ to tell their bosses that using clones to mine acid is morally wrong? And back on the island there was a big puddle of conscious self aware clones that pre-dated the storm.

Yeah you're right, there was a bit of a double standard there, but he was pissed off; it's not the first thing he's killed.

Quote: Marc P @ May 29 2011, 1:51 AM BST

Well.

Right.

Quote: Marc P @ May 29 2011, 10:07 AM BST

I will be back with my comments on WHO latest when they are fully fermented. :) Sometimes I rush in with rash early comments and MS stomps all over my opinions like an elephant in a watermelon patch.

Oh, you delicate flower you!

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 29 2011, 11:23 AM BST

Oh, you delicate flower you I'm going to flush your head down the toilet!

Then give him a dead leg

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 29 2011, 11:23 AM BST

Yeah you're right, there was a bit of a double standard there, but he was pissed off; it's not the first thing he's killed.

No, but Ganger Amy was an innocent. And I think Rory should have stood in the way more when the Doctor told him ominously to step away from his wife.

The intelligent gangers were intelligent because of the storm

the others like Amy had residual knowledge not true intelligece

hence the ganger Amy wasn't truly alive and would suffer the longer it lived

do keep up!

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 29 2011, 11:23 AM BST

Yeah you're right, there was a bit of a double standard there, but he was pissed off; it's not the first thing he's killed.

I think the flesh has some form of independent sentience, but the gangers only take on the conscious identity of the human when the human is unconscious, so the Doctor had to dispose of the ganger to free Amy.

The gangers on the island were different in that their conscious human identity had become fixed, in some, of course, unexplained way, by the electric storm.

The real double standard was ganger Jen creating another ganger just so she could dissolve it in an acid bath, though this could perhaps be explained by her general sociopathic behaviour.

But really we as the viewers should not have to join up the dots.

Other criticisms:

Jen turning into a physical monster would have been much more effective if we had not already had the unnecessary extended neck scene right at the start.

And the sentiment laid on with a trowel to Murray Gold's soupy music is really starting to get on my tits. It disrupts the pacing of the episode and kills the tension. Likewise the long series of extended farewells while they were supposed to be escaping the rampaging monster. If they had not pissed around so much there would have been time for all of them to get in the Tardis!

Quote: chipolata @ May 29 2011, 11:44 AM BST

No, but Ganger Amy was an innocent.

Sure, though she was being controlled by the real Amy, who didn't even realise she was doing that, as opposed to be a fully separate entity.

Quote: Timbo @ May 29 2011, 11:48 AM BST

I think the flesh has some form of independent sentience, but the gangers only take on the conscious identity of the human when the human is unconscious, so the Doctor had to dispose of the ganger to free Amy.

The gangers on the island were different in that their conscious human identity had become fixed, in some, of course, unexplained way, by the electric storm.

This.

Yeh I mean the Tardis has shields 'n stuff not to mention surviving being buried in acid

so whats a big monster actually going to be able to to it?

but great episode and some proper scares, the pile of gangers was proper scary

Quote: sootyj @ May 29 2011, 11:47 AM BST

The intelligent gangers were intelligent because of the storm the others like Amy had residual knowledge not true intelligece hence the ganger Amy wasn't truly alive and would suffer the longer it lived do keep up!

No. The whole point of the two episodes was that by the end of it the humans had realised that gangers should not be used for mining because it was cruel and inhuman. Not just the uber-gangers supercharged by the storm, but all gangers. And I'm guessing (in the case of Amy) being killed and knowing you are about to die at the hands of your closest friend counts as cruel and inhuman.

It was confused by the idea gangers retain some conciounse after death

nb read Kiln People, by David Brin too see these ideas handled better

I'm not necessarily against what happened providing they show us the repercussions in the next episode. A furious Rory angry at the Doctors actions (remember, Rory was the most pro-ganger one of the gang). And a guilt ridden Doctor agonising over whether he had done the right thing re Pond.

Quote: chipolata @ May 29 2011, 12:01 PM BST

I'm not necessarily against what happened providing they show us the repercussions in the next episode. A furious Rory angry at the Doctors actions (remember, Rory was the most pro-ganger one of the gang). And a guilt ridden Doctor agonising over whether he had done the right thing re Pond.

I bet you get none of that. :D

I imagine, being a Moffat ep, it will have leapt forward and we join events in motion.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 29 2011, 12:05 PM BST

I bet you get none of that. :D I imagine, being a Moffat ep, it will have leapt forward and we join events in motion.

Moff - like Reece - really would benefit from sending his scripts to me for detailed notes. ;)

LI felt the humans all made up with each other far too quickly. One minute they are fighting to the death, then just because a holographic brat turns up, it's all one big love-in.

I liked the wall of eyes though.
[quote name="sootyj" post="769272" date="May 29 2011, 11:47 AM]Amy had residual knowledge not true intelligece[/quote]
Ah, so that's why she's been crap at acting all this time.

Yeh now Rory got a role she is looking a bit soggy

After a promising start, which set up all sorts of possibilities, Amy has become a disappointingly bland character; it does not help that Gillen has such a limited range, but the writers have really done nothing to make her engaging.

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