Quote: Timbo @ May 9 2011, 10:58 AM BSTFor the first ten years or so of its run The Bill adopted a rigid approach of keeping characters personal lives in the background.
If you say so. I never watched it.
Doctor Who... Page 697
Quote: chipolata @ May 9 2011, 10:40 AM BSTWhat about things like Buffy or Smallville which have soapy elements?
Buffy was much cleverer than that; the whole show was anextended allegory about growing up, so the characters personal development became intrinsic to the plot elements. It was also a lot better written and performed, which made the characters perosnal lives actually engaging, rather than getting int the way of the plot. It is simply impossible to care about Amy and Rory.
Quote: Timbo @ May 9 2011, 11:02 AM BSTBuffy was much cleverer than that
I know. I love Buffy. Great show that managed to balance strong stand-alone stories with equally good series-long story-arcs.
Quote: Marc P @ May 9 2011, 10:43 AM BSTWell yes, that becomes the point - soapy elements! Not good is it?
You're being a snob, Marc!
The idea that featuring characters who are a couple is immediately 'bad' or 'soapy' in drama I find a surprising point of view. It's all in the execution, is it not? If you think it's been done badly in Who though, then fair enough.
Quote: Timbo @ May 9 2011, 10:53 AM BSTAn approach that has shown itself to be unfailing successful in dramas such as The Deep and Outcasts.
It undoubtedly helped with new Who, though.
Quote: Marc P @ May 9 2011, 10:59 AM BSTAnd then it became a soap. Much like Holby did.
Towards the end of the run they ditched the soap elements and went back to being a police procedural. Perhaps the penny had dropped that by introducing soap elements you alienate as many viewers as you draw in, though by that stage it was to late to win back lost viewers. Producers need to recognise that in a segmented market you cannot please all the people all the time. Each show needs to establish an identity and play to those strengths; if it is good on its own terms the viewers will come.
Dr Who at the moment is surviving on a residue of affection, but unless they work out why the show works and who the core audience are, it will not outlast the current incarnation of the Doctor.
Quote: Timbo @ May 9 2011, 11:14 AM BSTDr Who at the moment is surviving on a residue of affection, but unless they work out why the show works and who the core audience are, it will not outlast the current incarnation of the Doctor.
I'm not sure. As frustrating and disappointing as I often find New Who, it still does well in the ratings and has (inexplicably) garnered many good reviews so far this series. It's a long way from being a dead-show-walking.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 9 2011, 11:12 AM BSTIt undoubtedly helped with new Who, though.
I think the Billie Piper character was essential to the instant success of the show in giving young fans someone to relate to, but I do not think that is necessarily true of the associated soap elements.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 9 2011, 11:12 AM BSTYou're being a snob, Marc!
The idea that featuring characters who are a couple is immediately 'bad' or 'soapy' in drama I find a surprising point of view. It's all in the execution, is it not? If you think it's been done badly in Who though, then fair enough.
It undoubtedly helped with new Who, though.
Well just as I said above about why they are a couple really. It doesn't seem thought through beyond keeping the Doctor's hands of Pond's short skirt. If they don't know why the audience should care about them it is a bit hard for the audience to work out either, musical cues notwithstanding.
I don't mind couples in drama - I loved the Thin Man films, but they are quite rare in shows that come back I guess - unless it is a relationship drama or a large part of it. I didn't think Hart to Hart was great.
Quote: Marc P @ May 9 2011, 11:21 AM BSTI didn't think Hart to Hart was great.
I remember when they met. It was murder.
Quote: chipolata @ May 9 2011, 11:22 AM BSTI remember when they met. It was murder.
I gave a line to Stephanie what's her name in an early ep of Doctors when she arrived at her daughters house with a toyboy in tow played by the guy who played Cliff Richard's bit in the musical of Summer Holiday can't remember his name either. I tell you what - I'd make a great after dinner speaker with my anecdotes.
Quote: Marc P @ May 9 2011, 10:57 AM BSTif we don't so much and 'dramatic' stuff is contrived like the Rory resuss stuff it becomes soap I guess.
I kind of agree with this bit. The only thing missing from that was Rory coughing up a bit of water as he 'suddenly' revived, which is what usually happens. Which does make you wonder about the competence of some people on television trying to revive drowning friends if they don't even start by getting the water out of their lungs before the CPR.
The characters have died or nearly died so much in this programme that the returns have dimished to the point of non-existence.
At least Amy tried CPR. Later that evening over on BBC4 in Spiral Gilou was revived from a suspected heart attack by Laure shouting at him.
Quote: john lucas 101 @ May 9 2011, 3:40 PM BSTThe characters have died or nearly died so much in this programme that the returns have dimished to the point of non-existence.
Perhaps Moff should try rebooting the universe? Oh no, he's done that...
Quote: john lucas 101 @ May 9 2011, 3:40 PM BSTThe characters have died or nearly died so much in this programme that the returns have dimished to the point of non-existence.
They have to be in peril of dying each week, it's the nature of this kind of show; otherwise it's just people sight seeing.
But yes, the people apparently actually being dead then returning has been overplayed a bit.
Quote: Griff @ May 9 2011, 3:45 PM BSTIt can't be helping much with the average six year old's ability to assess the consequences of their actions.
Kids are crap at doing that anyway.
Every night, when I put my five-year-old to bed I warn him that if he pisses the bed again I'll beat the shit out of him again, and he carries on doing it regardless.