Doctor Who... Page 479

So I re-watched the series 4 finale today and really enjoyed it, such a great cliffhanger at the end of Part 1 and Davros was extremely well done. The Rose bit was completely naff though, I thought it then and still do now.

Now for a comment I'm going to get flamed for. I have really enjoyed this current series, but throughout I've had this nagging feeling in the back of my head that somethings missing. Watching a few "old" new who episodes, I think I've discovered what it is for me. Emotion. I honestly couldn't give a hoot if Amy or Rory die, but the end of series 2 when Rose got stuck in that other time thingy place touched me, (yes, I'm a woman). And when Donna forgot all the stuff she had done with the doctor, again it saddened me. Amy isn't a particularly likable character, in fact at times she's downright horrible. And Rory makes shaggy look like William Wallace, he's such a wimp. This series just seems like it's being written by, well a comedy writer. And it has been very funny, and Matt Smith's doctor is great but I do think it's lacking some emotional depth. Of course, many people (on the internet) hated that stuff during RTD's reign, so I guess they're loving it.

As an aside, I did also watched the Tennant finale again, and this is an example of when RTD overdid the emotion. However, the scene where the Doctor has to save Wilf with the four knocks bit is so fantastic, I really think Tennant deserves some accolade for his acting in that scene, it's just phenomenal.

I watched it again. 'And then we woke up' Deus ex Machina with the psychic pollen. I think it was at primary school I was taught against the' and then I woke up' ending.

Quote: Mickeza @ May 18 2010, 10:07 PM BST

Now for a comment I'm going to get flamed for. I have really enjoyed this current series, but throughout I've had this nagging feeling in the back of my head that somethings missing. Watching a few "old" new who episodes, I think I've discovered what it is for me. Emotion. I honestly couldn't give a hoot if Amy or Rory die, but the end of series 2 when Rose got stuck in that other time thingy place touched me, (yes, I'm a woman). And when Donna forgot all the stuff she had done with the doctor, again it saddened me. Amy isn't a particularly likable character, in fact at times she's downright horrible.

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I agree. I don't necessarily find her horrible, but I couldn't care less if she lives or dies. I was thinking maybe it's because we're still quite early on in the series, but maybe not.

RTD definitely sometimes overdid it on the emotion, but I really did genuinely care about Rose and Donna, (and of course the Doctor).
This series I find I'm more watching it for entertainment, rather than actually being properly involved as well. Which is a bit of a shame.

Some elements of the show under Moffat are great, maybe even better. But it's definitely lost some things as well.

Quote: Marc P @ May 18 2010, 10:24 PM BST

I watched it again. 'And then we woke up' Deus ex Machina with the psychic pollen. I think it was at primary school I was taught against the' and then I woke up' ending.

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True, I see no reason why the whole thing couldn't have been real. They defeated the Dream Lord by working out both realities were false, that's enough really, no need for the pollen thing, it wasn't needed.

Quote: Mickeza @ May 18 2010, 10:07 PM BST

And Rory makes shaggy look like William Wallace, he's such a wimp.

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I do really like him, much better than his RTD equivallent, Mickey.

I think it's the ramped up emotional aspects that brought the series a lot more female fans this time around, and had a lot of bloke fans grumbling for some reason. I think it's true to say that that aspect has been a bit more muted so far this year, it could certainly get a touch overwrought with RTD, but it is only the first seven episodes of a new regime. I suppose under RTD the whole 'Amy damaged by being abandoned by the Doctor' bits would already have been more heavily touched on by now.

I agree that this series of Doctor Who hasn't resonated emotionally. I don't really care about anyone in the show.

Donna resonated emotionally for me but only because I wanted her to do an Adric every episode.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 18 2010, 3:21 PM BST

I do tend to wait for your opinion before I'm able to form my own.

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I was referring to the fact that whenever I pan something you pipe up to say it's brilliant.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 17 2010, 9:23 AM BST

There was camp in the series, sure, but I don't see any 'gayness' reflected in the Doctors character. This is something you and others are bringing to it. Obviously that's all well and fine, if that's what you see. I have to say I really don't understand what it is that you're seeing as gay in him? Or is it that you just find Tennant not as 'macho' as, say, Ecclstone.

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Tennant isn't 'macho' at all. In fact his machismo needle wouldn't give a measurable reading. I think that this is what a lot of people are responding to - and the fact that the 'Geek' is more a gay archetype than a straight one. Of course some women are attracted to these kind of men - maybe even the majority of women who watch Doctor Who, but the programme has never been especially popular with women - like SF in general.

*Eccleston*

I think the problem is not so much that Amy is unlikeable character as that her character arc has been shockingly badly developed by both writers and actress. This is a girl who we were told had spent years in therapy as a result of being abandoned by the Doctor, and who has presumably ended up with Rory on the rebound. They could really have done more with that. There is nothing resembling emotional truth in Karen Gillan's performance, and the writers are not helping.

Matt's Smith's good though.

Quote: Badge @ May 18 2010, 11:17 PM BST

Donna resonated emotionally for me but only because I wanted her to do an Adric every episode.

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I had no particular problem with Donna other than that every so often she would have a vocal inflection that instantly called up a mental image of one of Catherine Tate's hilarious characters. Which was quite distracting.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 18 2010, 11:57 PM BST

Tennant isn't 'macho' at all. In fact his machismo needle wouldn't give a measurable reading. I think that this is what a lot of people are responding to - and the fact that the 'Geek' is more a gay archetype than a straight one. Of course some women are attracted to these kind of men - maybe even the majority of women who watch Doctor Who, but the programme has never been especially popular with women - like SF in general.

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In comparison to Tennant, Matt Smith's Doctor comes across like the kind of guy who wouldn't be embarrassed to slap a woman if she was being hysterical. Sean Connery stylee. Not advocating violence against women, just saying that his Doctor has a lot more hetero edge to him than his immediate predecessors.

Also, the idea that "geek" is a gay stereotype is bollocks, and I have the broken hymen to prove it.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 19 2010, 12:17 AM BST

In comparison to Tennant, Matt Smith's Doctor comes across like the kind of guy who wouldn't be embarrassed to slap a woman if she was being hysterical. Sean Connery stylee. Not advocating violence against women, just saying that his Doctor has a lot more hetero edge to him than his immediate predecessors.

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Yes. Which kind of the point when you think he's physically similar to Tennant - tall, thin and floppy haired.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 19 2010, 12:17 AM BST

Also, the idea that "geek" is a gay stereotype is bollocks, and I have the broken hymen to prove it.

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When I met you you looked more like a 'Daddy'.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 18 2010, 11:57 PM BST

I was referring to the fact that whenever I pan something you pipe up to say it's brilliant.

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Yes, that was what I was hinting at in the post you quoted, Godot.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 18 2010, 11:57 PM BST

'Geek' is more a gay archetype than a straight one.

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Not sure I agree there; I've never thought of geek as being more inherently 'gay'. I would have thought the thing that popped most easilly to mind when people think of a geek is a sci-fi obsessed loser who can't get a girlfriend.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 18 2010, 11:57 PM BST

the programme has never been especially popular with women -

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It is now though, there are a lot more female viewers than there used to be, responding, I would say, to the more emotional take of RTD.

Quote: zooo @ May 18 2010, 10:36 PM BST

RTD definitely sometimes overdid it on the emotion, but I really did genuinely care about Rose and Donna, (and of course the Doctor

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Not Martha then?

Haha. Nope.
That was down to the actress. (Who seems very nice in interviews, but is not great at the old acting.)

Quote: zooo @ May 19 2010, 11:13 AM BST

Haha. Nope.
That was down to the actress. (Who seems very nice in interviews, but is not great at the old acting.)

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Racist.

Quote: Timbo @ May 19 2010, 12:06 AM BST

I had no particular problem with Donna other than that every so often she would have a vocal inflection that instantly called up a mental image of one of Catherine Tate's hilarious characters. Which was quite distracting.

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This. I thought the Donna character was a good one, marred only by the fact that we'd seen Tate's entire acting range in her sketch show. If I'd never heard of Tate before that I'd have thought that Donna was brilliant, if a bit shouty.