Watching the News and a lifelong Labour voter says he'll vote Tory. His reason? He wants Brexit and he believes Boris Johnson is 'a man of his word'!! The biggest proven liar in British politics! I despair. Seems all you need to vote Tory is an IQ of 10.
Quote: Briosaid @ 28th November 2019, 10:40 PMWatching the News and a lifelong Labour voter says he'll vote Tory. His reason? He wants Brexit and he believes Boris Johnson is 'a man of his word'!! The biggest proven liar in British politics! I despair. Seems all you need to vote Tory is an IQ of 10.
I am the guy who says the things that cannot be said because I have nothing to gain or lose from stances and am just like that anyway as an opponent of deceits and I know that I am fundamentally solid in values. As Liberal or Green throughout my life until the middle of the current decade. As someone who went out of his way to study with the idea of improving race relations in the early 1980s and was well ahead of his time. As a guy who was at an Anti Apartheid Gig on a London Common as early as 1986. As a fan of reggae music and world music with eight attendances at the Irish and Scottish Fleadh at Finsbury Park in the 1990s, 13 gigs with The Pogues from the late 1980s to the early 2000s and six or seven attendances at Womad Festival (World of Music and Dance). As someone who (very unenthusiastically) voted Remain,
I really know that I don't have any skeletons in my closet in regard to diversity whether that is UK diversity or wider. My second favourite person of all time - and the second most emotionally influential on me - was a Jamaican woman who was my teacher and friend in an all white primary school. She only comes second to my Nan. I would now without rancour ask you to try and understand the complexities of the current position in the South of England without resorting to tropes.
The "I" word is significant here. It is actually the second most significant and not the first because the "D" word comes first. It's immigration. It is all very well for you in Scotland to have a view on wanting ongoing freedom of movement but I've been to Scotland. I've seen its wonderful countryside and met its wonderful people. I was taught by a muscle man how to toss the caber at the Highland Games in Nairn (which I know is pronounced Nurn), not that I could do it but I was 9 .
And I have seen its space. Immense. Immense. Immense. Here in the London Borough which houses the UK's main immigration centre we have seen a transformation of communities so that when I went out with a girl in my office at 18 she was the only black person there. It was, I think, about 8% non white then and now it is around 50%. People adapt. All colours, All faiths. Those whose families have been here for centuries and those who have just arrived. All credit to all of us. But the pressure on services is such that GP appointments can be booked only a month ahead and not within two days. That change alone has occurred in 2019 and it affects the English , the Scots, the Polish, the French, the Ghanaians, the Kurds and the Sri Lankans. It puts the health of every one of us at risk, Further unlimited immigration will kill more.
Scottish people haven't got a clue how it is here and you kind of depict us as privileged. It suits no one. The numbers of homeless on our streets is diabolical and all of them are immigrants. To see it is to revile a liberal way among whites in this country who have encouraged them to be in pain,. It's a liberalism which is utterly inhumane. This crap that Umunna comes up with. Oh so if we leave we won't have enough cheap - slave? - labour from poorer EU countries. We believe in immigration etc. Who says the rest of us don't? If we need 200,000 a year, fine. We can do it. We can positively do it.
To suggest otherwise is a downright lie. I have to say that I am deeply uneasy about paying Eastern Europeans a pittance because to me it is like Victorian slave labour and it also keeps white working class Londoners in their allotted poverty role. But, hey, there's no restrictions there. As women from France and Germany over 65 who the media occasionally permit to speak although they don't like it and generally gag them. They came here in 1960 or 1970 and stayed pre EEC.
They didn't need bloody uncontrollable freedom of movement to do it. This is all the tripe of the rich and posh wanting their own kids to be able to stick two fingers up to the rest of us from Lands End to John O'Groats by getting jobs abroad and abandoning us. Labour' s so called deal within three months will permit freedom of movement and I'm totally against as well as re-running the referendum. Which is kind of a pity because I am sort of more than half attracted to much of what they say. The Lib Dems are worse. No referendum at all. D is for democracy but dictators on their part. I see them now as the new Adolf Hitler and feel ashamed at having voted for them so long although I know they have really changed.
Kindly, can you not comprehend this?
Quote: A Horseradish @ 28th November 2019, 11:03 PMI am the guy who says the things that cannot be said because I have nothing to gain or lose from stances and am just like that anyway as an opponent of deceits and I know that I am fundamentally solid in values. As Liberal or Green throughout my life until the middle of the current decade. As someone who went out of his way to study with the idea of improving race relations in the early 1980s and was well ahead of my time. As a guy who was at an Anti Apartheid Gig on a London Common as early as 1986. As a fan of reggae music and world music with eight attendances at the Irish and Scottish Fleadh at Finsbury Park in the 1990s, 13 gigs with The Pogues from the late 1980s to the early 200s and six or seven attendances at Womad Festival (World of Music and Dance). As someone who (very unenthusiastically) voted Remain,
I really know that I don't have any skeletons in my closet in the regard of diversity whether that is UK diversity or wider. My second favourite person of all time - and the second most emotionally influential on me - was a Jamaican woman who was my teacher and friend in an all white primary school. She only comes second to my Nan. I would now without rancour ask you to try and understand the complexities of the current position in the South of England without resorting to tropes.
The "I" word is significant here. It is actually the second most significant and not the first because the "D" word comes first. It's immigration. It is all very well for you in Scotland to have a view on wanting ongoing freedom of movement but I've been to Scotland. I've seen its wonderful countryside and met its wonderful people. I was taught by a muscle man how to toss the caber at the Highland Games in Nairn (which I know is pronounced Nurn), not that I could do it but I was 9 .
And I have seen its space. Immense. Immense. Immense. Here in the London Borough which houses the UK's main immigration centre we have seen a transformation of communities so that when I went out with a girl in my office at 18 she was the only black person there. It was, I think, about 8% non white then and now it is around 50%. People adapt. All colours, All faiths. Those whose families have been here for centuries and those who have just arrived. All credit to all of us. But the pressure on services is such that GP appointments can be booked only a month ahead and not within two days. That change alone has occurred in 2019 and it affects the English , the Scots, the Polish, the French, the Ghanaians, the Kurds and the Sri Lankans. It puts the health of every one of us at risk, Further unlimited immigration will kill more.
Frankly, Scottish people haven't got a clue how it is here and you kind of depict us as privileged. It suits no one. The numbers of homeless on our streets is diabolical and all of them are immigrants. To see it is to revile a liberal way among whites in this country who have encouraged them to be in pain,. It's a liberalism which is utterly inhumane.
Stop right there. What I didn't mention was that the man interviewed was in the North of England. Nor do you know anything about immigration in Scotland. From the 50's we gradually had a lot of Asian immigrants. Some of them began by selling goods 'round the doors , acting as bus conductors etc. Lowly jobs. Gradually they built lives and businesses and have become well integrated. I go into a shop to buy something and the person of Asian origin, serving me has my accent.
And if all of your homeless on the streets are immigrants, that's another difference. Visit Glasgow and hear about the poor bastards dying on the streets - white faces, Glasgow accents. You don't know what the Hell you're talking about. If you can get a GP appointment in 2 days, you're bloody lucky. Last time I had to wait 2 weeks and it was nothing to do with immigration. Thank God for immigrants or we'd have no health service.
Quote: Briosaid @ 28th November 2019, 11:24 PMStop right there. What I didn't mention was that the man interviewed was in the North of England. Nor do you know anything about immigration in Scotland. From the 50's we gradually had a lot of Asian immigrants. Some of them began by selling goods 'round the doors , acting as bus conductors etc. Lowly jobs. Gradually they built lives and businesses and have become well integrated. I go into a shop to buy something and the person of Asian origin, serving me has my accent.
And if all of your homeless on the streets are immigrants, that's another difference. Visit Glasgow and hear about the poor bastards dying on the streets - white faces, Glasgow accents. You don't know what the Hell you're talking about. If you can get a GP appointment in 2 days, you're bloody lucky. Last time I had to wait 2 weeks and it was nothing to do with immigration. Thank God for immigrants or we'd have no health service.
I have glimpsed which is all I feel able to do but I will read it thoroughly . I just saw "you know nothing about immigration in Scotland" and turned off. I know about Italian migration. Why else would you have had a Michael Marra and a Sharleen Spiteri? Do you even know Michael Marra? Let's run another one past you. The Michael Macintyre who is not the disappointing comedian? I know about the great curry houses in Glasgow. world renowned. I know that the constituency where the awful anti-Semitic woman has just been booted off as a candidate is the most Jewish constituency in Scotland,
And in contrast. I know of the far right origins of the SNP before Salmond - admittedly it was transformed in a good way - and can also name the fascist nationalist movements in Scotland which hope to occupy the safe SNP space once they achieve independence and lose favour with the Scottish population on economic grounds. As inevitably will be the case as one party states, however great they are, never last forever. Incidentally, I also know why the voters of Peterhead are more like the voters of Lowestoft than Glasgow. It was the second most bombed place in our country in WW2. Did you know this? No wonder that Alex the to be judged was so keen on fighting in the North East. He never responded to my questions about the bigger Scottish than English role in building Empire. The Scottish don't have a monopoly on Scottish knowledge. I' guess in cultural roots based terms as a Londoner without Scottish roots I am more Scottish than you.
Deleted - not worth it.
Quote: A Horseradish @ 28th November 2019, 11:48 PMI have glimpsed which is all I feel able to do but I will read it thoroughly . I just saw "you know nothing about immigration in Scotland" and turned off. I know about Italian migration. Why else would you have had a Michael Marra and a Sharleen Spiteri? Do you even know Michael Marra? Let's run another one past you. The Michael Macintyre who is not the disappointing comedian? I know about the great curry houses in Glasgow. world renowned. I know that the constituency where the awful anti-Semitic woman has just been booted off as a candidate is the most Jewish constituency in Scotland,
And in contrast. I know of the far right origins of the SNP before Salmond - admittedly it was transformed in a good way - and can also name the fascist nationalist movements in Scotland which hope to occupy the safe SNP space once they achieve independence and lose favour with the Scottish population on economic grounds. As inevitably will be the case as one party states, however great they are, never last forever. Incidentally, I also know why the voters of Peterhead are more like the voters of Lowestoft than Glasgow. It was the second most bombed place in our country in WW2. Did you know this? No wonder that Alex the to be judged was so keen on fighting in the North East. He never responded to my questions about the bigger Scottish than English role in building Empire. The Scottish don't have a monopoly on Scottish knowledge. I' guess in cultural roots based terms as a Londoner without Scottish roots I am more Scottish than you.
I've only skim read this crap. More Scottish than me? You DO need a doctor. I've gone back to the 17th century with the family tree. Couldn't go further because of lack of relevant records. Lived all my nearly 75 years here and wouldn't live anywhere else (except maybe Ireland if I had to). You're hallucinating, man.
P.S. I've never met Michael Marra but of course I've heard of him, and his daughter - I think she's an MSP.
Quote: Briosaid @ 29th November 2019, 12:01 AMI've only skim read this crap. More Scottish than me? You DO need a doctor. I've gone back to the 17th century with the family tree. Couldn't go further because of lack of relevant records. Lived all my nearly 75 years here and wouldn't live anywhere else (except maybe Ireland if I had to). You're hallucinating, man.
No. Crap is Jo Swinson's latest word. Earlier it was bollocks and "chuckle hey we all smoked dope through university". I never did - - once. And the concept of slag who should be locked up for law breaking, male or female, has radically changed so that it favours the grossly aberrant and criminal. The suggestion that I need doctor is pure psychological nastiness and essentially bannable on my mental health grounds. So watch yourself. There is absol;utely no way on earth that I am prepared to take that level of psychological abuse to my personal health. Will you be forking up to be a supporter of this forum or remaining true to your form?. RETRACT your grossly offensive GP point to me NOW.
FIVE minutes to do it - and I'm counting because .this is abuse towards me based on ideas of mental illness - and it's a danger to my health.
Quote: A Horseradish @ 28th November 2019, 11:59 PMWell, ok, I got the Michael Macintyre thing wrong. I get loads of things wrong and honestly I like you. I just want you to understand how the sheer numbers here are concreting over all of our trees because of housing needs and leading to millions of deaths because many of us personally when in physical pain - as I currently am - can't be arsed to fight through a competitive battlefield to see a GP in a month. I can't be arsed. As soon as we don't end freedom of movement and I personally will say goodbye to this planet as too strongly competitive for me. I'd rather die than wait 6 weeks behind all the EU people.This is the reality. It is as simple as that. And here are three lovely if troubled songs from the great COLIN Macintyre.
Ok. The health problems - There are many reasons - silly bastards who break appointments, silly bastards who go to GPs with a sore throat or other trivial shite. However, at present I'm having to go through various tests and it astounds me the amazing things that are available compared to say, 40 years ago. This costs money, so, no wonder the health service is hard pushed when they now have to spend so much on these amazing developments. As far as staff is concerned, I'm astounded at the caring, amazing treatment I've had. I would happily kiss the feet of my surgeon - he's such a competent, caring person (with a foreign background)
We're out if sync with our posts. I seem to be one behind you.
Quote: Briosaid @ 29th November 2019, 12:14 AMOk. The health problems - There are many reasons - silly bastards who break appointments, silly bastards who go to GPs with a sore throat or other trivial shite. However, at present I'm having to go through various tests and it astounds me the amazing things that are available compared to say, 40 years ago. This costs money, so, no wonder the health service is hard pushed when they now have to spend so much on these amazing developments. As far as staff is concerned, I'm astounded at the caring, amazing treatment I've had. I would happily kiss the feet of my surgeon - he's such a competent, caring person (with a foreign background)
We're out if sync with our posts. I seem to be one behind you.
Well, just as well. It isn't what I wanted to hear and I had decided on my process. I was going to leave it tomorrow to take swift action. But "you need to see a GP" on pollical terms is pure Stasi and it is also an affront to people with mental health issues of which I am one of many. I don't care so much for myself but in attitude things need to change to be more progressive. I have always been very enlightened on this. Almost every mental condition is caused by the so called well.
I am not critical of many individuals working in the NHS although I am of some. What you say just absolutely proves the way it is all so easy for you in getting decent medical attention with a paltry population. You show no sign of having any understanding at all of the poverty of those in the South East of England so far as services are concerned or any emotional empathy. Again, you do this "with a foreign background" thing as if to imply that anything anyone says which is way beyond your experience is racist even when they have spent two or three paragraphs spelling it out. It isn't. Yours is here, whether you csn see it or not, like a sort of Gunatanemo Bay approach to decent English people. And less a cure than a cause. And I got it wrong on the Macintyres. One Malcolm, the other Colin but I do feel that Colin is very relevant here which is why I am such a fan. You won't have heard of him, of course, so here is an introduction to Scottish culture.
Quote: A Horseradish @ 29th November 2019, 12:10 AMNo Crap is Jo Swinson's latest word. Earlier it was bollocks and "chuckle hey we all smoked dope through university. I never did - - once",. And the concept of slag who should be locked up for law breaking, male or female has radically changed so that it favours the grossly aberrant and criminal. The suggestion that I need doctor is pure psychological nastiness and essentially bannable on my mental health grounds. So watch yourself. There is absol;utely no way on earth that I am prepared to take that level of psychological abuse to my personal health. Will you be forking up to be a supporter of this forum or remaining true to your form?. RETRACT your grossly offensive GP point to me NOW.
FIVE minutes to do it - and I'm counting because .this is abuse towards me based on ideas of mental illness - and it's a danger to my health.
So, the rule is, you can say whatever you like, but I can't? As I don't have a crystal ball, I know nothing about your mental health. And you know nothing about mine.
Quote: Briosaid @ 29th November 2019, 12:24 AMSo, the rule is, you can say whatever you like, but I can't? As I don't have a crystal ball, I know nothing about your mental health. And you know nothing about mine.
I know one thing about your personality. It is so quickfire when it comes to disagreement that you might as well be a highly competitive 12 year old. Your trigger responses are most remarkable. It almost suggests a background in that greatest of sports, curling. I haven't been able to finish a post yet until your reflex has gunned even though you are an elderly woman. As for not knowing about me, yeah right, so I don't say nuffin' and am always ultra oblique on on this site. Anyhow, I'm not dissuaded by any darkness as I can see through all of it and have always had angels at my sides.
Quote: A Horseradish @ 29th November 2019, 12:28 AMI know one thing about your personality. It is so quickfire when it comes to disagreement that you might as well be a highly competitive 12 year old. Your trigger responses are most remarkable. I haven't been able to finish a post yet until your reflex has gunned even though you are an elderly woman. As for not knowing, yeah right, so I don't say nuffin' and am always oblique on on this site. Anyhow, I'm not dissuaded by any darkness as I can see through all of it and have always had angels at my sides :
I find this pretty incomprehensible, but it's late at night so maybe you're tired. You seem to have finished many posts.
Quote: Briosaid @ 29th November 2019, 12:32 AMI find this pretty incomprehensible, but it's late at night so maybe you're tired. You seem to have finished many posts.
Yep
Psychologically manipulative - oui? - I am not tired and I haven't finished. You say what you find. I find what you say there pretty revolting. Don't you DARE tell me or anyone else whether they are tired or have finished. Their minds are theirs. Not yours.
Here's one from down your Scottish street so to speak - the great COLIN MacIntyre of whom you are totally unaware and Asylum. (Were you aiming to give the forum a few pennies as a supporter - or intending to be frugal and just ponce?) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n80wTMqCLjM
(I wouldn't mind so much but I actually went out of my way earlier to say that Sturgeon was impressive and that kind of hurt although in truth she has been convincing in her way throughout - ok it was in the negative context of attempted humour but I had you in my mind and went for fair minded nuance - you didn't get that and I'm not compromising on that ever again - she looked like a bloke when she was in her teens, she had curries on a regular basis with a bloke alleged to have wandering hands and is currently awaiting trial on allegations of rape and she is a tearer apart rather than a dove as she proclaims - all you needed to see was her acid cold face whenever Jo spoke : Still at least she didn't send the heavy big boys round as Blackford allegedly did when lovely Charles Kennedy was at his wits end having lovingly cared for his Dad - his death came way too soon but you can't control how quickly any pig three piece suit grim reaper is at your door).
He wasn't right on all things - EU anyone? - but he was by far and away my Liberal leader of choice - I loved him and of course he opposed the Iraq war : there was some very vague and approximate common identification - and yes, there were others - Nancy Seear, David Penhaligon and John Pardoe, among them, (I was Lib/SDP through and through), but not one of the others became leaders. I hated and abhorred the way he was killed. Consequently I will never ever give credence to his killers. Whatever the fallout, I unexpectedly found a pal by e-mail in Lord David Owen, not that I seek to engage with well-known figures. I kind of just write to them and see what c;lose relationships emerge. David is now pro Brexit. Extraordinarily and vehemently so. We went through a similar "I can't believe this" transition. He had a reputation for being cold/difficult. But he is such a person to be respected now. And in these years he has been so very kind to me and my half baked observations, taking the time and trouble to respond with thought to a nobody. I like and respect him.
But first, in happier times. :
Chas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaN4zhBGf-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_04awnvJ9mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5UlFvDpUrw 
....and Dave (the youngest Foreign Secretary in the entire 1900s when Labour):
Charles Kennedy was good Horse. He had moral standing. But we no longer have the right to criticize Trump considering the blind eye Boris has benefited from.
Boris was the only leader to duck out of C4's televised debate, admittance he doesn't have a good argument. Then the Cons threatened to review C4's broadcasting obligations, as they didn't like the statue placed on the PMs podium. A government that escapes scrutiny and then threatens the media - this doesn't bode well. Trump got a SNL writer sacked. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50596192