Quote: john tregorran @ 15th November 2019, 8:59 PMHe's a politician.
Quote: Briosaid @ 15th November 2019, 11:03 PMHe's a nutter.
Thanks, I've got the picture now. 
General Election 2019 Page 5
Part me is quite impressed by the commitment of all the parties to just pluck figures out of the air and generally spout complete and utter bollocks. Far more than ever before. They know they're talking hooey. They know we know they're talking hooey. And we know they know we know they're talking hooey. But still it goes on. We've dived headfirst into a Trumpian universe.
Quote: chipolata @ 16th November 2019, 10:40 AMPart me is quite impressed by the commitment of all the parties to just pluck figures out of the air and generally spout complete and utter bollocks. Far more than ever before. They know they're talking hooey. They know we know they're talking hooey. And we know they know we know they're talking hooey. But still it goes on. We've dived headfirst into a Trumpian universe.
It's on purpose.
The new tactic is, just say something - anything - again and again till it 'becomes' a fact.
Remember "£50 million for the NHS" & "Turkey"?
Worked for Brexit.
The Metropolitan Police are investigating "very serious allegations" of electoral fraud after a number of Brexit Party election candidates were promised inducements by the Conservative Party to stand down in various constituencies.
Nigel Farage claims that he and eight other senior figures within the Brexit Party have been offered a peerage in exchange either for standing down or for persuading others to do so, and Ann Widdecombe says she is prepared to swear on the Bible that she was offered a top job in the next phase of Brexit negotiations.
In the event of a Conservative majority, I'm sure it won't be easy for Boris to run a government from the comfort of his prison cell but I'm equally sure he'll give it a go!
I don't know why the tories just don't say they're increasing taxes for all, closing down all hospitals north of Watford, banning fish and chips and declaring war on Russia
Cos they would still win easy
Labour has got absolutely zero chance of winning
Quote: lofthouse @ 16th November 2019, 8:47 PMI don't know why the tories just don't say they're increasing taxes for all, closing down all hospitals north of Watford, banning fish and chips and declaring war on Russia
Cos they would still win easy
Labour has got absolutely zero chance of winning
Yes, because the Tories will throw their sweaty nightcaps in the air and vote for badly-brought-up, spoiled, self-seeking Boris.
Quote: lofthouse @ 16th November 2019, 8:47 PMLabour has got absolutely zero chance of winning
It's certainly unlikely, I'll grant you that.
On the other hand, Labour + Lib Dems + a few others could outnumber the Tories.
Quote: Rood Eye @ 16th November 2019, 8:57 PMIt's certainly unlikely, I'll grant you that.
On the other hand, Labour + Lib Dems + a few others could outnumber the Tories.
Let's hope because Tories are basically self-seeking bastards.
Lib Dem's have ruled out any coalition with a Corbyn led labour
Party
Quote: Rood Eye @ 16th November 2019, 8:43 PMThe Metropolitan Police are investigating "very serious allegations" of electoral fraud after a number of Brexit Party election candidates were promised inducements by the Conservative Party to stand down in various constituencies.
Nigel Farage claims that he and eight other senior figures within the Brexit Party have been offered a peerage in exchange either for standing down or for persuading others to do so, and Ann Widdecombe says she is prepared to swear on the Bible that she was offered a top job in the next phase of Brexit negotiations.
In the event of a Conservative majority, I'm sure it won't be easy for Boris to run a government from the comfort of his prison cell but I'm equally sure he'll give it a go!
Since when has offering bribes been a criminal offence.
I think that accepting bribes in certain circumstances can be a criminal offence, but I suspect the offering of jobs to do things like stand down has probably been going on since Cromwell re-created Parliament.
Quote: billwill @ 17th November 2019, 2:19 AMSince when has offering bribes been a criminal offence?
Probably for an exceedingly long time but certainly since the introduction of the Public Bodies Corrupt Practices Act 1889, now replaced by the Bribery Act 2010.
I do however take your point that there are circumstances under which no criminal offence is committed until an offered bribe is accepted.
Whether or not the Conservatives' offer to other candidates to withdraw their candidature falls into that category is yet to be determined - although several media sources appear convinced it's a criminal offence.
In any event, the fact that a couple of UKIP candidates did stand down might be seen by some as suspicious - particularly as the time of their standing down ensured that they could not be replaced by other candidates.
Quote: billwill @ 17th November 2019, 2:19 AMSince when has offering bribes been a criminal offence.
I think the crime is seeking to undermine democracy.
Bit like it isn't a crime to burn paper.
Unless they're ballot papers.
The Lib Dem candidate in Canterbury dropped out so has had to be rapidly replaced.
Their candidate is now the woman in this ad...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=7KxYoQjrrZI
Will she take part of the Tory vote and let in Labour again? 
Quote: A Horseradish @ 17th November 2019, 11:37 AMThe Lib Dem candidate in Canterbury dropped out so has had to be rapidly replaced.
Their candidate is now the woman in this ad...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=7KxYoQjrrZI
She's an ex-actress who's portrayed a rather racy character and, as we know, such women can rise to the highest levels of British society.
She might win by a landslide!
Election Monitor 3 - With The Professor
1. Trojan
The word "nationalism" derives in part from the Roman word "natus". In Greek it was "nutos" and later "nudos" but the meaning was much the same. In each case it was literally "the nakedness experienced at the time of birth" with "birth" and "nakedness" essentially equating. The application of the suffix "ism" has broadened significantly in the centuries since in Old Norse French it produced "pointillism" (meaning "little dots"). Consequently, today there is a wide range of usages, be they in cubism, herbalism and even jism. However, its true origins ran in meaning much closer to the concept of sectionalism, divisionism (later simply division) and individualism. Some say that it was first used as a shortened form of self-identification in the trojan horse. It was dark in there and given there was insufficient time to exchange lengthy conversation, each person would wish to convey quickly and covertly who he or she was as in "I(t)'s m(e)". Otherwise, there was always the prospect of being rodgered by an enemy who had managed to get in somehow between the hooves.
b. Flux
According to ancient political philosophers, nationalism itself was therefore a theory about establishing the individual or group within a communal area and in light of the political objectives of the equine endeavour one which represented changing or change. It was Plato who described how all peoples are always in a state of flux. Furthermore, he established that the most significant question for them was the extent to which they could expose themselves as changing or indeed having changed when with others. Much later Hegel developed the thesis in the Austro-German school so as to view the phenomenon as specifically relating to the nether regions whether pertaining to the body or geographical which he claimed at the margins were synonymous. But it wasn't until the analysis of Sigmund Freud when the condition of confusing communal changing areas with taking a dump was fully and remarkably revealed. Freud put this down to complications in the relationship between aunts and their nephews and nieces which he believed started in their wombs.
(iii), Pants
I met with Professor Kirsten McTafferty of the Social Engineering Department at Workington University to discuss some of these matters in the context of the 2019 General Election. Do they still have any relevance today? "Very much so" she told me. "So, what you have to remember is that it was only yesterday in historical terms when everyone was happy to have their pants down and be wiping their arses in an open row of thrones. The principle, albeit refined somewhat during the Victorian era, is still seen in the basic seating arrangements in the modern cinemas and theatre. It is just that the nature of the functioning has changed. Popcorn eating, for example, and all the fidgety stuff - the scratching, the farting etc."
D. Cludgy
So what happened? For McTafferty, the 1900s were "the century of devolution". Becoming more self aware, there were demands from voters to have "walls" between their bowel movements and those of other people. The advent of the toilet cubicle enabled them to feel that they were more in charge of their own affairs, not least as when that particular "curtain" came down they no longer had to bow for communal applause. "But it wasn't true independence-ism" she says. "It was a halfway house". Why? "Because the old style changing and showering areas remained. There were still no walls there as they simply were not envisaged by the architect of devolution Sir Donald Thomas Dewar-Crapper. Beyond the cludgy, everyone had to wave their genitals around in front of each other in what was basically an enforced United Kingdom."
(v). Doors
And that still remains the case today. "No, no" says McTafferty. "If you go into a modern gym, you will find that the changing areas and especially the showers have become cubic. The only difference between them and a bog standard bog is that they are without Crapper's adornment. This both reflects the 21st drive towards national independence-ism and reinforces it. Nevertheless the job hasn't fully been done. There are a lot of loose ends as it were." Like what? "Well, let me put it this way" she says. "You have four shower cubicles in a row, None of the doors are fitted to the floors. People are inclined to drop soap. Statistically it is highly probable that four bars will be dropped at the same time and skid out into the general area". "But if it's four bars, that would surely be "Great Britain and Northern Ireland" rather than the "United Kingdom". The United Kingdom only comprises England, Wales and, although it is outside the European Union, Guernsey-on-Sea?" "Fair point" she replies while provocatively brushing a hair from her sparkly retro "Girl Power" boob tube.
6. Trees
"But the basic premise is there from a psephological perspective. Four individuals fly out from their safe havens quivering in order to pick up their soap bars. Their nether regions are covered - with a bowler hat, a bunch of daffodils, a toy leprechaun and a very small saltire respectively but their arses are entirely bare. In that moment, it is pure natas or nudos. It is as if their umbilical cord has yet to be cut and in their confusion they entirely forget that they have a towel. Once back in their compartments and onto the more developed level of individual ismism, they can end up trying to dry their entire bodies with a few sheets of Andrex. Adorable looking puppies each, no doubt, but so disorientated they couldn't even find a stool to sit their cracks on, let alone decide on whether a million trees should be planted in our hospital wards."
g. Ballot
Fascinating stuff but does this tell us anything about how the forthcoming election is likely to pan out and what indeed the outcome might say about the country's future direction? McTafferty is optimistic. Given the need to conserve the planet's precious resources she doesn't see doors that are fitted to floors happening any time soon. But voting, she says, will be made easier when ballot papers are produced on a handy tear off roll and while that may not happen until around 2050 there have already been huge improvements with the wider use of shower gel. "With this election" she says "I believe we shall see the nationalists picking up quickly in marginal ablutions but in all of the dryer dressing and undressing constituencies there will be slower change. People feel safer there even if it doesn't represent full independence-ism."
Eight, Odysseus
And perhaps surprisingly, the Professor believes that even if full independence-ism were to occur, there will always be some fundamental human need to reach out beyond bra straps and braces. "They will find in time that they miss the experience of having their bums sitting alongside hundreds of others over a deep ditch in the open air. Obviously they won't see it in those terms but there is a big lump of the counter Odysseus in all of us. It could lead to some temporary compensatory behaviour". "Such as?" "Like indulging in orgies before leaving the gym and going down to Lidl or Tescos.
(ix). Knickers
But mostly Governments will organise it so that there is a fully clothed sense of shared market place. Nudge could be created via a policy of having a bundle of additional clothes where the mop currently goes round before it is squeezed of all its water into the slops bucket. I'll sell you my clean St George's flag knickers for a fiver if you let me buy your brand new sporran for ten. That sort of thing. No less than a rebirth of democracy and one that is fit for the 21st Century."
10. Pavlova
Just before our chat ended, I asked her if it was ok if I put my boxer shorts back on.". "By all means" she replied. "There's a cloakroom behind the kitchen. You should be able to find a bit of privacy there and I have left a marvellous hat on one of the pegs which you will wish to purchase. It's at an amazingly reasonable price. Alternatively we'll swap and I'll have one of your socks. Anyhow, I've got to rush off to pick up the kids from school, deliver a hundred leaflets, make a strawberry pavlova, produce a 25,000 paragraph novelette and referee a game of men's rugby before beddy byes so toodle-oo". As I drove my pony, Dobbin, back to London on off road motorcycle tracks and the M25 I wondered what all the ancient philosophers would think of it. Then I thought "f**k it" and just went down the bowling alley to inspect their shoes.
(The discussion took place on 31st September 2019. McTafferty is standing in Workington North and The Radiation Pipe West of Sellafield as an Independent. Broadcasting rules require me to say that several other candidates are standing.)