Downfall

Back in February, when Bruno Ganz died (who I'd never heard of) somebody on TV was urging people to see his superb acting as Hitler in "Downfall". This was on Film 4 about a week ago, so I recorded it and have just finished watching the third part as the film was three hours long, so I did my usual of an hour a night when I had the time.

The reviewer's glowing review was certainly correct - this film is an absolute masterpiece and I can highly recommend it. You may not like sub-titles, but I'm certainly glad it was not dubbed as it would have totally ruined the film.

The grit and hopeless situation of Hitler with his loyal and not so loyal staff in that bunker in Berlin in their last few hours is riveting, and at one point, when he began to realise that some of his generals and trusted staff had walked out on him, there was a glimmer of sympathy I felt in Ganz's portrayal - but this was soon dispelled when he then went on to rant about how he ultimately blamed the whole mess on the Jews and the liberal allies.

If you haven't seen it then I urged you to, it is a masterpiece of the cinema - the whole shebang - cinemaphotography, acting etc. etc of an almost factual piece of history, and to cap its authenticity you have a prologue and epilogue by Hitler's secretary who was still alive when the film was made.

Don't just take my word for it though - look at the near 600 (!) reviews on the IMDb, nearly all of which give the film 10 out of 10!

Thanks, it's now on my list.

Watched it in one sitting.
I intended to do as you did Herc and split it but I never found a point that I could leave.

Powerful stuff!

The murder of Goebbels children was particularly hard to take.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 27th March 2019, 8:00 AM

Watched it in one sitting.
I intended to do as you did Herc and split it but I never found a point that I could leave.

Powerful stuff!

The murder of Goebbels children was particularly hard to take.

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Yes, 30 years ago I would have probably done the same, BUT I'm of an age now (you wait! ) when I tend to drift off after about an hour and then find it's the early hours of the morning.

Yes, I was thinking how on earth a mother could do that under any circumstances, but then I found that for some reason it was one of those tiny things they changed slightly from reality. You could say for dramatic effect, but I don't think that was needed, so I think it odd.
I quote :-

"On the following day, Magda and Joseph Goebbels arranged for an SS dentist, Helmut Kunz, to inject their six children with morphine so that, when they were unconscious, ampules of cyanide could be crushed in their mouths. According to Kunz's later testimony, he gave the children morphine injections, but it was Magda and SS-Obersturmbannführer Ludwig Stumpfegger, Hitler's personal doctor, who administered the cyanide."

So even them drinking the concoction prior to the cyanide pills was not correct it seems.

Apart from nerds picking up on incorrect bits of equipment, uniform insignia and vehicles used the film is very close to what happened. I may well watch it again one day - absolute masterpiece in my eyes.

I've seen the real pictures of the children. They were beautiful.
If the movie was not exactly how it happened (and who knows what the real story was)
Magda was still present at the doping and cyanide taking.

It didn't mention much in the film that Goebbels was shagging anything that moved and Hitler told him to stop it.
Maybe it was misconceived revenge on Magda's part.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 27th March 2019, 11:03 AM

I've seen the real pictures of the children. They were beautiful.
If the movie was not exactly how it happened (and who knows what the real story was)
Magda was still present at the doping and cyanide taking.

It didn't mention much in the film that Goebbels was shagging anything that moved and Hitler told him to stop it.
Maybe it was misconceived revenge on Magda's part.

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True. true, I did realise that after I had typed it, so it still makes you wonder how she could have, presumably, personally supervised it.

Hmmm, don't know about you, but I got the impression in the film that they were a devoted couple, but having said that I would have thought maybe he would have dealt with his children, not her. After all he didn't have any compunction when it came to killing innocents elsewhere.

The other thing you may have not noticed, and it did puzzle me was why Hitler's secretary's name changed and research has revealed that she was married in the three years between the interview and later when the film was primarily set.

If we keep this thread going, maybe more people will be intrigued to watch the film.

In looking for reasons why people in the Berlin bunker (and elsewhere) killed themselves and their children, the fact of the matter is that it was very much the lesser of two evils.

The alternative was, of course, to fall into the hands of the Russians - and I think the least said about the consequences of that eventuality the better.

A fate worse than a fate worse than death?

I liked the sort of dig, joke maybe that when Hitler was getting married he was asked for his papers to prove he was of aryan decent. The pregnant pause until someone stepped in to say you can't ask Hitler that was terrific.
The actor that played Himmler was too good looking. Himmler was a shithouse and looked like one.
No loyalty from him when the final days came. Uniform over the wall and dressed like a tramp joining the crowds of displaced people.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 27th March 2019, 2:24 PM

I liked the sort of dig, joke maybe that when Hitler was getting married he was asked for his papers to prove he was of aryan decent. The pregnant pause until someone stepped in to say you can't ask Hitler that was terrific.

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Yes, I was waiting for Hitler to do one of his explosive rants as he did earlier on, but I think he was so disillusioned now with it all and the desertions of trusted men that he'd had enough and was simply exhausted..................plus he had more on his mind, like knowing that in a short while he was going to have to shoot Eva and then blow his own brains out, which tends to distract one of course.

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 27th March 2019, 3:29 PM

he had more on his mind, like knowing that in a short while he was going to have to shoot Eva and then blow his own brains out,

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History, as we all know, is written by the victors.

Accordingly, the claim that Hitler and Eva were found dead at the bunker must be regarded with considerable suspicion.

It's far more likely that, as the Russians drew ever closer to Berlin, Hitler and Eva were planning their new lives in South America. It's equally likely that they did indeed escape to South America where they lived out their lives in luxury and happiness. And wouldn't that embarrass the Allies if it became public knowledge!?

I'm not saying they didn't die at the bunker: I'm saying that it wouldn't surprise me one little bit if the story of their deaths were nothing but Allied propaganda.

Let's face it, when you're as powerful and resourceful as the British and US governments, it's not difficult to come up with apparently irrefutable proof that the bodies found at the bunker were those of whoever you want the rest of the world to believe they were.

Then why didn't Hitler's secretary say as much in the epilogue to the film. She had nothing to gain in any way to lie in 2002 when the interviews were made, prior to the film's release. You can come up with as many conspiracies as you like but given the circumstances and tight ring around the Berlin bunker at that time, I cannot see how the two of them could have escaped.

No, she said they committed suicide and the bodies were burnt - that is good enough for me.

It's a nice conspiracy theory but as with most of them, they are just that.
Some Nazis did escape but not the main man.

But back to the film... The actor who played Hitler was the best Hitler i have seen.
He must have studied his every move and nuances.
From the start - that was Hitler.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 27th March 2019, 5:23 PM

It's a nice conspiracy theory but as with most of them, they are just that.
Some Nazis did escape but not the main man.

But back to the film... The actor who played Hitler was the best Hitler i have seen.
He must have studied his every move and nuances.
From the start - that was Hitler.

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Yes and chillingly so. Apparently not only did he study all the films of Hitler (including some that were never released), he also studied people suffering from Parkinson's, which is what Hitler developed in the last years of his life. He also had a voice coach so he could perfect Hitler's distinct Austrian accent from the area where he grew up.

About thirty years ago, a woman friend of mine from Scotland told me that, when she was active as some sort of district nurse, she used to visit a Lady (of the realm) who had had dinner with Hitler and Eva.

I'm not sure where all this happened but the Lady assured my friend that Hitler seemed a very nice man.

Sadly, however, she was not keen on Eva.