Well, shocking as this might be...I actually think political correctness all in all is a good thing.
Who's stopping Catholics from still using BC? It's not a term invented for the Catholic community. It's invented for scientists and religiously neutral groups. Which is why it was used in school for me. There's supposed to be a separation of church and state in the US.
No, the church can still use it but how many Sunday Schools are there now? Their big moan is that state schools and exams now use the new secular form of dating exclusively so they fear their rapidly diminishing flock of followers vanishing even quicker now. When kids are being educated with no traditional references to Christ I can see their concern.
As an historian I'd be worried too as it actually changes established historical usage. I'm sure the good ones refuse to use the new form, we shall see. I never thought Schama was a good one, he gives potted histories for gnomes and his ridiculous delivery is just distracting.
Rewriting history in a modern non offensive way is actually hugely offensive to many. And is no less a form of indoctrination than the construction of religion itself.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th March 2018, 3:17 PMWhat are we going to call Easter?
I call it Osterreich.
Whitsun is Wittgenstein and Christmas is Alpine Dream.
BCE isn't too bad.
It is only two letters away from getting off swimming for several weeks.
What I really don't understand is if the Muslims agree Jesus was a Prophet and they think Mohammed was too why do they make such a big thing about the latter as someone who they agree was only human?
And yes - BCE is a load of PC bollocks!
Quote: Chappers @ 5th March 2018, 9:29 PMWhat I really don't understand is if the Muslims agree Jesus was a Prophet and they think Mohammed was too why do they make such a big thing about the latter as someone who they agree was only human?
IIRC, whilst only human himself, Mohammed received divine word direct from God. The prophet of prophets. The chosen one.
Quote: Aaron @ 5th March 2018, 9:35 PMIIRC, whilst only human himself, Mohammed received divine word direct from God. The prophet of prophets. The chosen one.
And Jesus?
Quote: Chappers @ 5th March 2018, 9:40 PMAnd Jesus?
And Jesus is considered just a regular prophet, a man spreading teachings, but not specifically receiving instruction.
I was wondering what BCE meant. If schools are now required to use BCE instead of BC it seems contradictory that the government refuse to change the Sunday Trading laws like it's an untouchable pillar of British life. Christianity views Sunday as a rest day but not all faiths do and it feels outdated now. Back in the 80s when it was tradition for shops to close early on a Sunday so familes could get home to have a Sunday roast and then watch Bullseye/That's Life/Antiques Roadshow/Highway etc it made sense but now it seems unnecessary and something non Christians may object to.
Apart from the religious connotations don't you really think it's good to have one day of the week where there is no real stress and tensions?
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 5th March 2018, 9:51 PMI was wondering what BCE meant. If schools are now required to use BCE instead of BC it seems contradictory that the government refuse to change the Sunday Trading laws like it's an untouchable pillar of British life. Christianity views Sunday as a rest day but not all faiths do and it feels outdated now. Back in the 80s when it was tradition for shops to close early on a Sunday so familes could get home to have a Sunday roast and then watch Bullseye/That's Life/Antiques Roadshow/Highway etc it made sense but now it seems unnecessary and something non Christians may object to.
Things are very different up here. We've had full Sunday trading for years and years and I doubt it's contributed to anybody's nervous breakdown, Chappers. It's actually very reassuring to know you can nip out at 8 p.m. if you run out of something necessary. In fact when I've been on holiday, self-catering, in England, I've found it a bloody pest rushing to buy stuff before 4 p.m. when we've been having what should have been a leisurely day out. There's nothing to stop anybody having a quiet Sunday if they want.
And to get back to the subject, I don't give a damn whether it BC or BCE.
Quote: Chappers @ 5th March 2018, 9:54 PMApart from the religious connotations don't you really think it's good to have one day of the week where there is no real stress and tensions?
No. Sundays with everything closed is bollocks. I for one and very glad more and more things are open. Further relaxation of the ludicrous laws cannot come soon enough.
Quote: Aaron @ 5th March 2018, 10:30 PMNo. Sundays with everything closed is bollocks. I for one and very glad more and more things are open. Further relaxation of the ludicrous laws cannot come soon enough.
Yes. As a child I always hated Sundays - found them quite creepy.
Quote: Chappers @ 5th March 2018, 9:54 PMApart from the religious connotations don't you really think it's good to have one day of the week where there is no real stress and tensions?
But that's the point Mr Chappers because who decides what that day is?
Quote: Briosaid @ 5th March 2018, 10:27 PMThings are very different up here. We've had full Sunday trading for years and years and I doubt it's contributed to anybody's nervous breakdown, Chappers. It's actually very reassuring to know you can nip out at 8 p.m. if you run out of something necessary. In fact when I've been on holiday, self-catering, in England, I've found it a bloody pest rushing to buy stuff before 4 p.m. when we've been having what should have been a leisurely day out. There's nothing to stop anybody having a quiet Sunday if they want.
And to get back to the subject, I don't give a damn whether it BC or BCE.
You're all heathens north of the border.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 5th March 2018, 4:34 AMRewriting history in a modern non offensive way is actually hugely offensive to many. And is no less a form of indoctrination than the construction of religion itself.
Does rewriting of history in a modern non-offensive way tend to hugely offend you? If so, why? Most politically correct 're-writings' are to get rid of slurs and racist stereotypes directed toward marginalised groups. Are you in one of those marginalised groups that have been the victim of slurs? Would you rather people just disregard political correctness and say whatever they please, no matter who it offends or hurts? You seem concerned that 'someone' is hugely offended by political correctness, and I can't help but think that 'someone' is mostly white males. If you're concerned about yourself being offended why would you not then extend that concern to other groups of people who are offended on the other end of the PC debate? Or are you above those groups?
And how is it indoctrination? Indoctrinating people to slightly modify their word-usage, one word at a time? Like someday if the PC brigade has their way we'll speak only in neutral language and all humanity will be lost? I think we gain humanity when we show respect and concern for people we have previously hurt with our words.
In the case of BC/BCE, it just seems like a matter of anachronism. The etymology of the word outlived its reasonability in modern scientifically-advanced and secular societies, and so we updated the term slightly to compensate. Anachronisms can hold us back, stunt progress, and keep people ignorant. I don't know about you, but that's not my hope for society. As far as religious communities being offended, it makes sense. I'll give you that. I guess they have a stake in it because if their version of the term is used more, then more people will maintain some sort of Christian ideals? A lot of Christianity is about 'spreading the word' and if the word is updated to no longer accord with the Bible's teaching they might become upset that the new word is being spread instead of their own. It seems like a petty complaint to me.