Some messenger. You just can't see past guns. Glad to see some firms have the guts to boycott the NRA bastards.
Aww, shoot. Let's bang on about guns. Try to stay on target. Page 7
Quote: Bill Poster @ 27th February 2018, 11:31 PMI wonder what the teachers think of Trump's plan for arming them?
I have quite a few friends who are teachers. Most are gun owners and most, but not all, support it as long as it's done carefully. Voluntary, extensive training, mental health checks, etc.
When I took my concealed handgun training class many years ago the trainer made an interesting point when one of the guys mentioned that he worked in a hospital. (Hospitals are "gun-free" zones.)
"Why don't you just carry anyway? It's illegal to brandish or otherwise mention a concealed firearm, so if you have it concealed properly nobody will ever know it's there, so you won't get in trouble unless you have to use it. And if you're in a situation where you have to use it, wouldn't you rather be arrested and/or fired from your job rather than be killed because you weren't allowed to be armed?"
For me, the same thing goes for teachers. As long as they are discreet, highly trained and sensible, nobody should ever know that they are armed. A simple sign outside the school should be enough to make potential shooters think twice. It's already done that way here in Texas:
Quote: Bill Poster @ 27th February 2018, 11:31 PMGuess who's going to be first in line when some nutter breaks in ??
They're typically the first to be shot anyway. When people advocate radical magazine capacity restrictions so that heroic bystanders can tackle them in the 2 seconds that it takes to change magazines, I remind them of the Sandy Hook shooting where the psycho killed 6 adults before turning his rifle on a room full of 6-year-olds. Large magazines or not, those poor kids didn't stand a chance without an adult to intervene.
Quote: Briosaid @ 27th February 2018, 11:55 PMSome messenger. You just can't see past guns.
Wrong. It's very important to see past your gun in order to acquire the target. 
Quote: Briosaid @ 27th February 2018, 11:55 PMGlad to see some firms have the guts to boycott the NRA bastards.
It will make exactly zero difference to the NRA and its coffers.
Three cheers for you DaButt. I am ignorant enough and red necked enough and bigoted enough, etc etc to actually think you make fair points! Yes, I too must be a gun totin' moron just like you are, well according to those goldarn tree hugging namby pamby lefty types, there boy.
There is no room for sensible debate with the tree huggers, mate. Never was. I have tried myself but they are so self righteous and fair minded and liberal and inclusive, that your opinion is just plain wrong and excluded!
Shall we have that beer now, my red neck is just aching to be slashed by a tree hugger.
sadly there is no beer emoji..
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 28th February 2018, 12:15 AM
Just paste this link from now on.
Cheers!
Quote: DaButt @ 28th February 2018, 12:36 AMJust paste this link from now on.
Cheers!
Good health!
I'm 'gunner' be in the states later on this year doing the 'rounds' of a few friends, if I knew you better I'd be calling in on you at 'your ranch' so we could 'nazi-strut' around with a couple o' 'irons' and we'd be 'shootin' the ass' off of a few tree huggers.. Yes siree, bob..
.. and we'd have that beer in person!!
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 28th February 2018, 2:34 AMGood health!
I'm 'gunner' be in the states later on this year doing the 'rounds' of a few friends, if I knew you better I'd be calling in on you at 'your ranch' so we could 'nazi-strut' around with a couple o' 'irons' and we'd be 'shootin' the ass' off of a few tree huggers.. Yes siree, bob..
.. and we'd have that beer in person!!
If you're going to be in Texas, let me know and I'll show up armed with nothing more than a bunch of beer. I've met several of the posters here in London and the ones who are still alive will likely vouch that I'm an alright guy. The two who are no longer with us did not perish at my hand, I promise. I miss you, Dave and James. 
Quote: DaButt @ 28th February 2018, 2:55 AMIf you're going to be in Texas, let me know and I'll show up armed with nothing more than a bunch of beer. I've met several of the posters here in London and the ones who are still alive will likely vouch that I'm an alright guy. The two who are no longer with us did not perish at my hand, I promise. I miss you, Dave and James.
Yes my thoughts too to those BCG'ers who are no longer with us, and also any 'ex-4laughs refugees' (such as myself) who have now shuffled off this mortal coil, or who are near to it..
I may well be in striking distance of Texas - I'll firm that up with you in due course.. no dates set yet but coming..
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 28th February 2018, 3:21 AMI may well be in striking distance of Texas - I'll firm that up with you in due course.. no dates set yet but coming..
That would be great. San Antonio is kind of boring for being such a large city, but there's plenty of Tex-Mex food and BBQ. Austin is only 75 miles up the road. Great city.
If teachers were all allowed to carry guns do you think more people overall in a given year in the US would be shot accidentally or in a mishap involving non-defensive gun discharge by teacher's guns, or would more shool shooters be killed? I have a hard time believing the 'hit rate' of teachers successfully taking out a shooter would be quite low. People aren't naturally good at firing a hand arm at another human being and landing a shot that takes them down. Range, stress, armor, having to worry about managing the kids at the same time, would all make it less likely that a teacher would be the hero in these kinds of situations.
That's a general problem I see. So many more people get shot either on accident or in non-defense than get shot intentionally by shooters in shootings. I get it that shootings are awful, but I don't think arming the general populous is the logical first response to the fact that there are shooters in this world.
Guns are terrifying to me. At least they're terrifying when I think about myself being the one shooting. My dad shoots all the time, and I'm used to guns. When I was selling door to door people would point guns at me when they opened the door, and I just kind of got used to it. Lots of people have signs on their houses saying things like 'I will shoot you if you knock on my door' or something to that effect. Which eugh...so gross. Yay humanity. I can understand gun enthusiasts. It's similar in my mind to people who shoot bows or play darts or bowl or something. But having a gun 'just in case you might have to shoot someone who is shooting at you' just seems like the stupidest attitude to have in life. If I get shot, I get shot. I can accept that the same way I can accept that if I get hit by a car, I get hit by a car. I'll be careful to make it less likely to happen, and that seems like plenty protection to me. I don't think it's likely to for me or most anyone to get shot because I have a perhaps misguided faith in humanity, so I'm not going to jump the gun and buy a gun 'just in case'. I miiiiiight think about carrying a pistol if I was out in bear country or somewhere with lots of cougers though just to scare them away. That's about the only time I myself would willingly tote a gun. As far as the idea of being somehow 'oblilgated to protect' others from gun attackers, that's just not for me. Anyone could be a hero, sure. But I think more people trying to be heroes end up hurting people needlessly than actually save people.
It's kinda ironic what with there being so many guns in Texas that the frackers are free to ultimately earthquake it out of existence.
Give it 30 years and it will have moved seismically into Mexico, albeit a good 500 feet below anyone wearing a sombrero .
So you knocked on doors and some came to the door pointing a gun at you?
It's another world.
Quote: Davida @ 28th February 2018, 5:09 PMIf teachers were all allowed to carry guns do you think more people overall in a given year in the US would be shot accidentally or in a mishap involving non-defensive gun discharge by teacher's guns, or would more shool shooters be killed?
Both numbers would probably be very close to zero most years, since school shootings are somewhat rare and only a handful of teachers would likely be carrying in any school.
It's important to note that there's really no such thing as an accidental discharge. The military calls such incidents "negligent discharges" because guns don't shoot unless someone pulls the trigger. A teacher would have to pull their firearm out in order to shoot someone, and if they draw it in other than a life or death situation they would be arrested for brandishing a weapon.
Quote: Davida @ 28th February 2018, 5:09 PMSo many more people get shot either on accident or in non-defense than get shot intentionally by shooters in shootings.
Huh? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement, but accidental gun deaths are in the 400-500 range, while thousands of people are shot and killed while committing crimes. Hardly a week goes by that I don't see a story in the local paper about someone in town who shot and killed a criminal. Yesterday a liquor store owner a few miles from here killed a man who attacked him at his business.
Quote: Davida @ 28th February 2018, 5:09 PMGuns are terrifying to me. At least they're terrifying when I think about myself being the one shooting.
Someone who is afraid of guns shouldn't have a gun, and that goes for teachers, too. With proper instruction you could get over your fear, but that's a personal choice. I didn't own a firearm for the first 40+ years of my life.
Quote: Davida @ 28th February 2018, 5:09 PMWhen I was selling door to door people would point guns at me when they opened the door, and I just kind of got used to it. Lots of people have signs on their houses saying things like 'I will shoot you if you knock on my door' or something to that effect.
Where in the world were you selling? I've knocked on thousands of doors from coast to coast, but I've never had someone point a gun at me. I've never seen a sign like that, either. You must live in a rough neighborhood. Move somewhere safer. 
Quote: Davida @ 28th February 2018, 5:09 PMIf I get shot, I get shot. I can accept that the same way I can accept that if I get hit by a car, I get hit by a car. I'll be careful to make it less likely to happen, and that seems like plenty protection to me.
The instinct for self protection is strong. I imagine that any student cowering under a desk as a shooter passes by would love to pause time and pick up a gun in order to even up the odds a little. The chances of having to defend yourself against an attacker are slim, but they are not zero. Again, it all comes down to personal choice. I've been paying for automobile insurance for 35 years and haven't had an accident, but I'd be foolish (and a lawbreaker) if I didn't carry it just in case.
Quote: Davida @ 28th February 2018, 5:09 PMI miiiiiight think about carrying a pistol if I was out in bear country or somewhere with lots of cougers though just to scare them away.
Never think about carrying a gun just to scare someone or something away. If you aren't prepared to use it to kill, then you shouldn't be carrying it in the first place.
Quote: A Horseradish @ 28th February 2018, 5:11 PMIt's kinda ironic what with there being so many guns in Texas that the frackers are free to ultimately earthquake it out of existence.
For the last dozen years I've lived 50 miles from the largest fracking operation in the state and I have yet to feel the ground tremble. Wait, I take that back. There's a military base a couple of miles from here and last week they were practicing ordnance disposal and there were several explosions that rattled my house.
Gas is currently the equivalent of 39p per liter, so frack, baby, frack!
Quote: DaButt @ 28th February 2018, 6:10 PMBoth numbers would probably be very close to zero most years, since school shootings are somewhat rare and only a handful of teachers would likely be carrying in any school.
It's important to note that there's really no such thing as an accidental discharge. The military calls such incidents "negligent discharges" because guns don't shoot unless someone pulls the trigger. A teacher would have to pull their firearm out in order to shoot someone, and if they draw it in other than a life or death situation they would be arrested for brandishing a weapon.
Huh? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement, but accidental gun deaths are in the 400-500 range, while thousands of people are shot and killed while committing crimes. Hardly a week goes by that I don't see a story in the local paper about someone in town who shot and killed a criminal. Yesterday a liquor store owner a few miles from here killed a man who attacked him at his business.
Someone who is afraid of guns shouldn't have a gun, and that goes for teachers, too. With proper instruction you could get over your fear, but that's a personal choice. I didn't own a firearm for the first 40+ years of my life.
Where in the world were you selling? I've knocked on thousands of doors from coast to coast, but I've never had someone point a gun at me. I've never seen a sign like that, either. You must live in a rough neighborhood. Move somewhere safer.
The instinct for self protection is strong. I imagine that any student cowering under a desk as a shooter passes by would love to pause time and pick up a gun in order to even up the odds a little. The chances of having to defend yourself against an attacker are slim, but they are not zero. Again, it all comes down to personal choice. I've been paying for automobile insurance for 35 years and haven't had an accident, but I'd be foolish (and a lawbreaker) if I didn't carry it just in case.
Never think about carrying a gun just to scare someone or something away. If you aren't prepared to use it to kill, then you shouldn't be carrying it in the first place.
For the last dozen years I've lived 50 miles from the largest fracking operation in the state and I have yet to feel the ground tremble. Wait, I take that back. There's a military base a couple of miles from here and last week they were practicing ordnance disposal and there were several explosions that rattled my house.
Gas is currently the equivalent of 39p per liter, so frack, baby, frack!
50 miles.
When choosing a place in Texas to live, you couldn't have found one further away from a fracking plant.
But then I guess if you want to drive to the hospital on a public road while your arms are hanging off that is what you have to do.
The main point remains that the wall won't need to be built because Washington expects a sinkhole all the way from Florida to California.
How do I know?
My mate Chico's been talkin' to the Man.
I think Da Butt deliberately posts all this shit to bore us so much we won't protest (under the guise,of course, to being intellectual about it)
[quote name="Davida" post="1187537" date="28th February 2018, 5:09 When I was selling door to door people would point guns at me when they opened the door, and I just kind of got used to it. Lots of people have signs on their houses saying things like 'I will shoot you if you knock on my door' or something to that effect. [/quote]
Naturally Da Butt has minimilised this. I wonder how many people here remember the outrage when a British tourist in US approached a house to ask for directions (help with a car breakdown?)And was shot dead on the doorstep? And nothing was done about it. The US is one of the last places on earth that I'd visit. Davida, wish you could come here as you're obviously an actual human.
What needs to happen behind the scenes for Trump's madcap idea to arm teachers for it to actually become reality? Is it something the President can do himself or does it need to be rubber stamped by Congress? Can he just keep coming up with crazy ideas that never get approved and just fades from memory until his time in office is finally over?
The idea of tackling shootings in schools by arming teachers is deluded and to suggest it after the recent incident in Florida where a law enforcement officer who was paid and trained to take action but was too scared to track down the shooter shows Trump is a fantasist. The idea of having highly trained, responsive marksmen (Stan: or women) who are primarily teachers is another ludicrous entry to the timeline of the Trump administration. People go in to teaching to teach not carry firearms and this could be an open door to the Tackleberry types and that in turn will probably see a dramatic decline in the quality of candidates going in to the teaching profession. It needs regular training and drills and constant assessements to give the kind of SWAT response Trump is suggesting but there will be none of that for the teachers who just have to do a course and sign a form. What if a teacher is overpowered by someone and the gun is discharged in the melee?
I've seen news reports where a lot of young Americans are saying the answer isn't more guns it's more control but the ones at the top who have the biggest guns and biggest piles of cash will always win. Everything Trump says and does shows he's an industrialist not a politician.