Aww, shoot. Let's bang on about guns. Try to stay on target. Page 12

If you're not from America you can't understand the gun culture there. It's a big place with a vast population so some might feel the need to have home protection. I view the NRA as a way forward in the fight against mass killings because it's a social environment of people who want to own firearms and want to be trained to use them in a responsible way. It's no different to a Karate club or Knitting club and it brings people together. I'm sure the statistics show that most of the people behind mass killings in the last 30 years were not part of the NRA leading up to the attacks. Perhaps known by law enforcement but that's different and it seems like what many of them have in common is they have become disillusioned loners. A term I'm sure is not prevalent in the NRA.

32000 loners?

It's too late for gun control, you would have more chance swimming the channel whilst smoking a cigarette

Another black man shot for carrying a phone.

Apparently, if you can believe the Daily Mail,London had more homicides than New York in Feb.The UK is going to need stricter knife control.

People who use knives, let's be honest they are not right in the head...evil.

Quote: Bill Poster @ 1st April 2018, 10:54 PM

Apparently, if you can believe the Daily Mail,London had more homicides than New York in Feb.The UK is going to need stricter knife control.

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Is this where a foreigner jumps in and tells Londoners how to solve a problem he doesn't even understand?

Quote: Rigs @ 2nd April 2018, 8:44 AM

People who use knives, let's be honest they are not right in the head...evil.

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If everyone's willing to maintain a strict diet of mushy peas, soup and custard, London will be able to solve their problem and enact a common sense knife ban.

A big contribution to the growing knife crime in London is social media because it's being used to whip up a frenzy of rage among groups who are not part of gangs or known to the police. One example was a dispute between two schools which was escelating because it was being discussed on social media and it resulted in a boy being chased and stapped multiple times. All the offenders who were convited of murder were doing well in school and it was a shock to their families that they could be involved in such violence.

Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 2nd April 2018, 5:45 PM

A big contribution to the growing knife crime in London is social media because it's being used to whip up a frenzy of rage among groups who are not part of gangs or known to the police.

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Interesting. That makes a case for the futility of knife bans and additional legislation, since they don't appear to be working. Something needs to be done about the individuals, not the weapons. What would make a good kid decide to become a murderer?

They don't 'decide'. Think 'West Side Story'.

If anyone needs a concrete example of the differences between our two nations, here it is:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43639183

Only in the UK would a 78-year-old man be charged with murder for stabbing an armed man who broke into his house (with another man) in the middle of the night and accosted him. In the United States the cops would have given him a high-five and congratulated him. I'm sure the man will be exonerated, but what kind of message does this send to the law-abiding citizens of the UK?

I love how the BBC put the word 'burglar' in quotes. Maybe they were just looking for a cup of tea?

Another difference is, the burglars didn't have guns and neither did the house owner.
Nobody is high fiveing here, it's a sad case all round.
I hope it's resolved without too much stress to the old man.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th April 2018, 7:03 PM

Nobody is high fiveing here, it's a sad case all round.
I hope it's resolved without too much stress to the old man.

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I feel sad for the homeowner, his family, and the family of the dead man, but I won't shed any tears for the criminal who broke into the old man's house. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Not sure how it works in the UK, but here in the States the dead man's accomplice would likely be charged with his murder, since he died during the commission of a felony.

Quote: DaButt @ 4th April 2018, 5:43 PM

If anyone needs a concrete example of the differences between our two nations, here it is:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43639183

Only in the UK would a 78-year-old man be charged with murder for stabbing an armed man who broke into his house (with another man) in the middle of the night and accosted him. In the United States the cops would have given him a high-five and congratulated him. I'm sure the man will be exonerated, but what kind of message does this send to the law-abiding citizens of the UK?

I love how the BBC put the word 'burglar' in quotes. Maybe they were just looking for a cup of tea?

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I don't need that as a concrete example. The difference is simple. America's a police state where cops can do whatever they want, from shooting innocent people to arresting people for giving food or money to the homeless, to arresting kids for burping in class. And the UK isn't. Good.

I feel sorry for the old boy and hopefully he's sat with a nice up of tea with his solicitor and he'll be back home soon and rightfully seen as the real victim. But cops can't just take whatever someone tells them whether they believe it or not. They have to follow procedure. Otherwise we'd have a society like this:

"I've just killed someone in my house. They were an intruder."

"Oh no problem. There's no need for evidence or forensics or anything. Just scrub really hard. That blood can be tough. Goodbye".

Quote: Statesman Dave @ 4th April 2018, 11:42 PM

America's a police state where cops can do whatever they want

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Not even remotely true.

Quote: Statesman Dave @ 4th April 2018, 11:42 PM

But cops can't just take whatever someone tells them whether they believe it or not. They have to follow procedure.

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Our cops do the same thing, but it doesn't typically include putting a crime victim behind bars. Elderly man, burglar who more than likely has an extensive criminal record, CCTV cameras everywhere -- this guy shouldn't have been removed from his home unless the police had a very good reason to suspect him of a crime.

The real difference between our two nations is this: we are allowed to be prepared to defend ourselves and our property. In the UK, preparation such as sleeping with a knife by your bedside would be considered "lying in wait" and could result in a prison sentence. In the U.S. cops and courts essentially say, "If someone breaks into your home they deserve whatever happens to them." Within reason, of course. You can't hogtie a burglar and then start lopping off digits or pouring boiling oil on him, but the use of deadly force is acceptable if you fear for your life.