Quote: Baumski @ October 13, 2007, 10:43 AMBut does it really matter?
That's totally the wrong attitude to have if you're writing comedy. It's like accepting that you can't come with an original idea. IF your work is almost entirely derivative then you'll get nowhere.
If I write a joke and it's even slightly similar to something else, it gets cut.
Quote: Seefacts @ October 13, 2007, 11:03 AMThat's totally the wrong attitude to have if you're writing comedy. It's like accepting that you can't come with an original idea. IF your work is almost entirely derivative then you'll get nowhere.
It's not the idea that's the problem, it's whether or not it is knowingly lifted and then passed off as your own creativity or not. Personally, I only go with what I believe to be my own original writing but I wouldn't condemn out of hand writing that unknowingly and inadvertently crosses over to somebody else’s creativity.
Quote: Seefacts @ October 13, 2007, 11:03 AMIf I write a joke and it's even slightly similar to something else, it gets cut.
Really? Then you cant have managed to stockpile very much material! Even if you think its original, of course theres going to be something at least slightly similar somewhere! And if so, who cares? Unless its just a direct rip off I dont see why it matters, as long as you didnt so it on purpose and its very definitely your own take; theres no reason to be so precious.
I go with Matthew and Baumski here.
There's having the same idea independent of someone else, which is nothing to be ashamed of, as long as the artist is aware that they didn't deliberately steal.
Then there's the appalling advice given in an article by a rather well-established writer on a certain broadcaster's website to wannabes like us. It said "Do not hesitate to steal other people's material." This is shocking and disgraceful. That's the kind of writer that shouldn't be sleeping at night but does. What art is there in robbing others? What confidence in his own ability to produce true work inspired that sort of attitude? What does it say about the broadcaster that condones this 'advice'?
When I find out an idea's been I've often shelved it and moved on. But I'm tending more to the idea that inevitably everything we do and think is derived upon previous influences, whether conscious or otherwise. We can't escape our past. But as long as we're not skimming off profit from someone else's labour we can keep our integrity.
The point is there is a difference between coincidence and plagiarism. To think that our material is all 100% totally original is self-deception. No thought occurs in isolation from all other thoughts. It's how we put our own stamp on a thought that makes it unique and that's the key component that seperates us from genius.
If a joke fits and you consciously know it's from someone else, I don't think there is any harm in using, if it helps the piece feel more complete. If you're not sure, to ease your conscience, you could ask the creator.
I've had some time to dwell on this and, while I'm disappointed to discover the idea is not wholly original, I'm still happy with the bit. It plays more like an extension of the joke than a copy. Mine is about Hitler's frustration at being left out of high fiving. Seinfeld's is about the Nazi's inventing the high five. Remove the 'Heil Five' title, which doesn't even feature in the sketch, and you have two quite different beasts.
I do appreciate that someone had the nerve to point out that the idea had been done before though, so sorry if my initial reply came across as a touch bristly. Another black eye for post-pub emailing. And thanks also to everyone else for their contribution to the debate.
It's a good sketch David.