EU Referendum - In Or Out? Page 13

Quote: billwill @ 10th June 2016, 6:15 PM BST

If the UK does not negotiate a free trade agreement with the remaining EU it will get more expensive,

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I can't see even the most Brit hating EU states not having to sign one to keep their economies alive. German car and kitchen appliance market would take a severe hit, Spain's fruit, Holland's vegetable, France's champagne, Sweden and Italy's furniture, several country's tourism industries would all suffer near fatal damage if they made it too expensive for us to trade with them.

The trade issue's a no brainer, I can't understand why the Leave campaign hasn't wrapped that one up. And our lower wages issue, it's obvious what's caused it even tho the Remain lot are still nervously denying it. The Leave campaign need to hammer that one home. They desperately need someone working class on their TV campaign to bury that one. It's all been a bit too high brow type experts who many people won't identify with. The leave campaign could win the campaign easily with the right people and choice of subjects.

The icing on the cake for me was Tony Blair backing the remain campaign. If he told me that water was a wet liquid, I'd get a second opinion. My motto in life is "whatever Blair says- always do the opposite".

The problem is that the EU have required free movement of people (jobs) to go with free trade of goods as part & parcel of any FTA.

So if the UK accepted such an FTA, we would be back with the same immigration problem.

What we want is an FTA for goods with no free movement of workers and it will be extremely difficult to get that from the EU.

Pets will lose their EU passports if there is a Brexit and may no longer be protected from tapeworm.

Quote: A Horseradish @ 13th June 2016, 9:15 AM BST

Pets will lose their EU passports if there is a Brexit and may no longer be protected from tapeworm.

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Bloody good job too. we don't want all those Rabid flea-ridden animals being allowed into our country.

So do we know yet what would happen if WE vote to leave?

Can we do so and how long will it take? I can't imagine that by my 60th Birthday (26th June - hint, hint!) we'll have left.

Quote: Chappers @ 14th June 2016, 10:13 PM BST

So do we know yet what would happen if WE vote to leave?

Can we do so and how long will it take? I can't imagine that by my 60th Birthday (26th June - hint, hint!) we'll have left.

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We will have formally left by your 62nd.

All new trade agreements should be finalised by your 80th.

And the referendum asking if we should go back in, by your 81st

Quote: A Horseradish @ 14th June 2016, 10:59 PM BST

All new trade agreements should be finalised by your 80th.

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It took Canada 7 years to get their trade deal, so that sounds about right.

I've worked this one out now. Cameron just announces a points based immigration system this week. He says that this is good for Britain and good for the majority of countries who with Britain in EU benefit from our support.

Cameron should go on to say we are effectively helping the EU by saving it from itself. That it's less of a breach of what has been agreed with partners in the EU than walking away via a Brexit from everything that has been agreed. When the EU bigwigs threaten to take us to court for our unilateral action, Cameron will say that we will not be turning up and they can boot us out of the EU if they want to. This will be their decision. However, they should note it will seriously disadvantage smaller countries who by this time will be rallying to our support.

Obviously they will continue with their processes as best as they can. But Cameron should say that if they do tell us to leave we will not be at all conciliatory in terms of trade deals and plonk high tariffs on them having exited. As Brexiters tell us, they need us more than we need them - the ability to sell French wine, German cars to us etc. Consequently in all likelihood they will have no option but to accept what we have decided. We're staying in with our unilateral decisions. Hard luck. Ah, some will say but surely that is anarchy after which every country will do exactly what they want. No because most countries need the EU more than the EU needs them so they have to do what they are told. It's all so simple I really don't know to be perfectly honest what all the fuss is about.

My proposal which is the only way now of having any sort of chance of ongoing membership is kinder to us in that it doesn't involve a gamble with the economy and kinder to those countries who would suffer if we left. It is also far more weighty in terms of ambition than a tiny snivelling and stroppy voluntary walkout where Britain only aims to save Britain rather than Britain and all of Europe. I expect the Government to pull its finger out and do this by lunchtime Friday or I will be imposing sanctions myself. For example, I will stop buying Cornish pasties.

.....that UKIP boat on the Thames today.

What time is it due to reach Westminster?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OizMUMXOSJU

One thing has struck me recently. When we watch Carry On films, old episodes of Dad's Army, Porridge etc. we all go "Oh, this is the one where.......". Now the remain side of the euro referendum dig up Major, Blair, Brown and their ilk, thinking that we will vote for them like they are old cuddly favourites that we reminisce fondly of. People largely have their view either way and will not be swayed by this dumb ploy.

I think if Bliar wants us to stay he should shut the f**k up because he's likely to tip the balance the other way.

So keep talking Tone.

Does anyone know if Nigel Farage is a multi millionaire?

What size of house does he live in?

Here are my own two lists of things good and bad that were solely decided by the British Government and on which the EU actually had no say. This doesn't suggest to my mind that EU in reality has affected much at all:

LIST ONE OF BRITISH DECISIONS

Loosening of ties with the Commonwealth
Selling off of the family silver - ie Buy outs of British organisations
A low tax economy, for better or worse
An economy susceptible to the financial crash of 2007-2008
Non-intervention on tax havens and limited tax collection from global companies
Abuse of Parliamentary expenses and associated crime
Parliamentary sleaze - sexual and financial, eg cash for questions
Return to private school elites in positions of power
Inaction on historical child sex abuse
Drugs policy
Maintenance of FPTP for better or worse and an unelected House of Lords
Fragmentation of the UK via devolution, whether right or wrong
Changes to the structure of the NHS
Insufficiently educated population to fill highly skilled jobs
Replacement of grants by loans for university entrance
The increase in faith based schools
Academies, for better or worse
Increase in housing costs and housing shortages
Tearing up of old planning rules and threats to the Green Belt
Attempts to sell off British forests
The Millennium Dome project
Delays on decisions about airport expansion
HS2, for better or worse
Energy costs and lack of planning for future energy need
The same shops in every British town and city
Lack of regeneration in areas which lost their industrial base
Pension equality at an increased age in line with other global countries
The hit to private pensions
Unemployment in state sector with broken compensation arrangements
The selling off of British gold
The Falklands War
Intervention in wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya
Ringfencing international aid
The opening of borders to European migrants
High immigration as a preferred policy option to lower immigration

LIST TWO OF BRITISH DECISIONS

The maintenance of the Royal Family - a British choice
The smoking ban - a British choice
Widespread availability of halal and kosher meat - a British choice
The hunting ban - a British choice
Same sex marriage - a British choice
Increased monitoring of communications - a British choice
National Parks and AONBs - a British choice
Beginnings of fracking tests - a British choice
Very extensive charitable status - a British choice
The BBC - a British choice
Changes to radio and television licencing - a British choice
Fewer public holidays than in Catholic countries - a British choice
Current levels of maternity/paternity leave - a British choice
Controls on Trade Unions - a British choice
Imans preaching on Finsbury Park streets - a British choice
Closure of police and fire stations - a British choice
Elected police commissioners - a British choice
Ending of grammar schools - a British choice
Ending of O and A levels - a British choice
Polytechnics becoming universities - a British choice
The closure of the last coal mine - a British choice
Shift from public transport to motoring - a British choice
Legislation to improve race relations - a British choice
Paying for the Eurovision Song Contest -a British choice
London 2012 and hosting Commonwealth Games - a British choice
Britain's Special Relationship with America - a British choice
Increased trade with India and China - a British choice
Most of the benefits system - a British choice
Council tax bands frozen at 1991 levels - a British choice
Introduction of London and other Mayors - a British choice
Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron - a British choice

Oh and here is my own list of British citizens who will have no extra democratic power whatsoever after Brexit.

LIST OF EVERYONE NOT AFFECTED BY WHATEVER IS DECIDED

1. Those - the majority - who live in stronghold constituencies where one party always wins. They can't help to boot out Westminster Governments unless they move house.

2. Northern Ireland citizens who rarely have the opportunity to vote for any party that forms a Government in Westminster.

3. Permanent UKIP voters whose vote is naturally spread across constituencies unlike Conservative and Labour votes, thereby leading to virtually zero seats.

4. Ditto permanent Green voters for the same reason and to a large extent permanent Lib Dem voters. Also Plaid Cymru and SNP voters.

5. Permanent right wing Conservative voters in marginal constituencies who can't stand less right wing Conservatives but would never risk letting in a Labour Government.

6. Permanent Labour voters in marginal constituencies who can't stand whatever part of the Labour Party is governing the Labour Party but would never risk letting in a Conservative Government.

7. People in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who are strongly against Scottish separation and have no way of ensuring a Westminster Government doesn't offer another referendum.

8. Respect, BNP, Independent and other assorted voters.

Basically, none of these people will have any more power in a Brexit than they do over EC Commissioners etc. Those who will amount to a tiny few people in a tiny few places, mostly in marginals in the West Midlands.

F**k me! How do you have time to write all that? Do you really expect anyone to read it all?