DIY

Well, I've been asked to create a DIY thread, so here it is!

I'm no expert, but have been keen on DIY for nearly 50 years, having worked alongside plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc. etc., where you can glean so much useful and practical tips, I have found the experience invaluable. I highly recommend it if you can and usually they are happy to have a free labourer and your bill won't be so big!!

I have installed central heating from scratch in a 5 bed house, completely rewired another one to a very high standard (above the legal requirement) alongside which I installed a TV system and telephone circuit throughout the same house.

I don't know everything! And am hoping, and feel sure that there must be many other keen DIYers on this forum who have a valuable contribution to make.
The only thing I never quite mastered was plastering..................

Oh and importantly - I never touch anything to do with gas.

So, pulling these from the Status Report thread, here's a starter:-

Quote: A Horseradish @ 11th September 2014, 6:31 PM BST

Thank you for the tips. I thought washing up liquid had oil in it but I suppose the water dilutes it. Have used lemon jif in earlier times and am wondering about the long term effects. Guess that "sizing" means covering the whole of the wall with glue like slop. All of these sentences are questions, sort of, except for the first.

No. I do not have a light fitting in place but I used to have one there. It's just a bit of bare wire and I don't understand why it isn't working. I may have been heavy in the past with the use of pliers. Words like "twin" and "trip" and phrases like "a bulk standard wire block" scare the hell out of me although I did replace a timer switch in an airing cupboard once, much to my amazement. Would this thing be easier or more difficult? Ta.

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Absolutely no way should you have just two wires sticking out of the ceiling! I have seen some wiring bodges in my time, but this takes the biscuit, and I am presuming you inherited this from a previous owner - seriously dangerous!

Right! OK! Or whatever...........

(1) You should have 9 wires coming out of the ceiling (YES - NINE! A Red live, a Black neutral and a Bare earth = 3 {in a grey sleeve cable} - times 3.Just in case anyone sticks their oar in - Yes, one of the 3, if it is wired properly, - the switch cable would be 2 Reds and a Bare Earth ) which you wire into the Ceiling Rose:-

Then twin only domestic cable (one brown, one blue) from that to the light bulb holder:-

If you only have two wires coming out of the ceiling, with no juice, then DON'T TOUCH IT - call in an electrician!

BUT I am intrigued now as to how you fitted a light bulb (?) to that before you had this problem?

How old is the house?

You must have a fuse box somewhere? - Either old fashioned wired fuses or trip switches.

(2) No, no, no - there is no oil in washing up liquid. By its very nature it is designed to dissolve oil and grease, but Jif is a scouring cleaner.
Sizing is done according to how bad the walls are. If it is modern/recent plasterwork then (cheaper) extra diluted wallpaper paste (10 to 1 say or weaker) will be perfectly adequate. If you have old walls that are powdery or even crumbling (!) then use a dilute PVA of say 10 to 1 or stronger if the walls are really bad (I have used it neat in the past!), BUT WHY are you washing the walls - what job are you preparing to do?
Hope this is clearer and helps.

Quote: A Horseradish @ 12th September 2014, 5:34 PM BST

He's nothing less than the 2014 version of Barry Bucknell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RVnzu0COFU I have just spotted your detailed post. I thought you had run scared and didn't contemplate you would come back on it. It's most kind of you and are there no ends to the strings on your bow? My initial responses are 1968 and, no, I don't have a rose. But I am delighted to announce that these are not my
last comments on the matter. Not by a long chalk. I will, though, have a stiff drink before a fuller reply.

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Barry Bucknell! The first DIY man of the TV age, along with Harry Greene (father of Sarah Greene - Blue Peter etc); but Barry was a hero of mine, so to be his 2014 incarnation is an honour!

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 12th September 2014, 5:47 PM BST

Do we have a DIY thread? if not, I'm counting on you to start one Hercules, I need never Google 'why did my rawplug disappear into the plaster' again

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1/. You used a too bigger drill bit or drilled the hole too deep* - you can rescue the situation by filling the hole with ** "No Nails" and gently pushing the plug in flush with the wall, but will have to wait for the filler to "go off" hard. Say 24 hours - nice excuse to have a beer or two.
*If you haven't got a depth attachment on your drill, then put a bit of tape or mark with a permanent marker on the drill bit the exact length of the plug.
**Wet the hole before you fill it with the No Nails.

2/. If you are plugging into plasterboard where it is hollow behind - use a plaster board plug. They are excellent! But be careful you don't over tighten them as you will finish up with a big hole and have to use 3/. - see below!. Used them many a time- should come with a matching screw. DO NOT buy the plastic version - effin useless!

3/. If it is a hollow wall (say behind hardboard or ply) the use a Toggle Bolt. You have to drill a larger hold to be able to slip the sprung loaded "wings" through but once tightened up you will have a solid anchor.

DRILLING TIP:- If drilling into something soft like say breeze block or soft red bricks (common in E.A.) then use a slightly smaller drill bit and DO NOT use the hammer function on your drill if it has one. If drilling into hard bricks like iron bricks or granite then a hammer drill is essential - most modern drills have this feature.

I have a feeling this thread will descend into what not to do...

Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 13th September 2014, 7:53 AM BST

I have a feeling this thread will descend into what not to do...

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Thanks for your vote of confidence Paul , but if what not to do is to do it right?

Only trying to help.

Quote: Nogget @ 13th September 2014, 6:08 AM BST

Usually, you use sugar soap on walls.

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Good point, as it will degrease - especially good in kitchens. What threw me was "hot soapy water", which you wouldn't get with sugar soap. Though......

Despite its seemingly innocuous title it is at the end of the day a chemical cleaner and should be used with caution.

(1) You should have 9 wires coming out of the ceiling (YES - NINE! A Red live, a Black neutral and a Bare earth = 3 {in a grey sleeve cable} - times 3.Just in case anyone sticks their oar in - Yes, one of the 3, if it is wired properly, - the switch cable would be 2 Reds and a Bare Earth ) which you wire into the Ceiling Rose:-

Not necessarily so! There are several ways in which a lighting circuit can be wired. You are describing the 'loop-in' method. And, the colours mentioned are on old circuits. Since 2006 (and before - but law in 2006) Twin and Earth cables are coloured brown and blue.
Some electricians prefer the loop-in system as it is much quicker to wire (1st fix) Others prefer the 'joint-box' system as it is easier and quicker to '2nd fix' with less wires and no permanently live wires at the light fitting.

So, it's quite possible to have only 2 wires at a light fitting and be legitimate. The light fitting that was up before might have been double insulated or not had an earth terminal. The earth might have been cut off or more commonly folded back out of the way.

DIY that's usually what the ladies say when I'm after a bit of the old romancing.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 13th September 2014, 9:46 AM BST

Not necessarily so! There are several ways in which a lighting circuit can be wired. You are describing the 'loop-in' method. And, the colours mentioned are on old circuits. Since 2006 (and before - but law in 2006) Twin and Earth cables are coloured brown and blue.
Some electricians prefer the loop-in system as it is much quicker to wire (1st fix) Others prefer the 'joint-box' system as it is easier and quicker to '2nd fix' with less wires and no permanently live wires at the light fitting.

So, it's quite possible to have only 2 wires at a light fitting and be legitimate. The light fitting that was up before might have been double insulated or not had an earth terminal. The earth might have been cut off or more commonly folded back out of the way.

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Well, there you go - you learn something new each day, thanks for that Stephen , and it is what I was hoping that other people will post their advice and experience; but as Horse's house is about 1968 the likelihood is that it will be as I described, as I have found in all the houses I have lived/worked in.

If you're not sure - get a qualified electrician in.

But I will certainly bear in mind your explanation should I ever buy a brand new house.........which is unlikely. >_<

My dad is a DIY master having spent all his working life in the building trade. I, of course, have picked up none of his practical skills.

I did however put together a flatpack chest of drawers recently - and it wasn't a single chest, it was a double one, so there were a variety of frames!

Ask me to wire a plug though and I'll probably burn the house down. I guess, as with most things, practise helps.

Quote: Ben @ 13th September 2014, 12:07 PM BST

My dad is a DIY master having spent all his working life in the building trade. I, of course, have picked up none of his practical skills.

I did however put together a flatpack chest of drawers recently - and it wasn't a single chest, it was a double one, so there were a variety of frames!

Ask me to wire a plug though and I'll probably burn the house down. I guess, as with most things, practise helps.

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A double one! Did you have any bits left over?

Everyone should learn/know how to wire a standard 3 pin domestic plug. Tut Tut.

I post on an Electrical forum (being a sparky for 40 years) and the wiring a plug thing crops up regularly. And I agree, they can be tricky things to do correctly.
Despite a law that all new electrical appliances must be fitted with a 13A plug (and the correct fuse) many still are not, leaving the customer with no option but to fit one themselves.

MK an electric components company designed a 13 Amp plug that was brilliant. It had a cardboard template attached to the pins that you could use for cutting the wire length - which also brilliantly were all the same length and the terminals were colour coded so you couldn't go wrong. Alas, it was a bit more expensive that a normal plug and so didn't catch on.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 13th September 2014, 12:57 PM BST

Despite a law that all new electrical appliances must be fitted with a 13A plug (and the correct fuse) many still are not, leaving the customer with no option but to fit one themselves.

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Good heavens! I've never seen an appliance without a plug - I thought it was a very strict law in this country. Or could this be equipment that is bought online and slips into the country? Even two pin equipment comes with an adaptor fitted.

I amazed that the powers that be allow this to continue.

I think inadvertently I might not be conveying the position accurately. There is a rose attached to the ceiling. And I do have a new light bulb holder that could be used. There was one there before and half of that old one is still there. The holder is similar to the one in your picture, HGT, and in that picture it looks to me as if there are just two slots through which you can thread wires. Not three. And that is what I have. So I think what Stephen Goodlad describes sounds about right for what is there and throughout the house.

I used to stick one wire from the brown cable through one hole and secure it with a screw. The kind that is so small that if you drop it, it is a devil to find on the carpet. And then I would do the same with the other wire - ie through the other hole and screw down. Very fiddly. It was always an eye through a needle job. I suppose I may have stretched one of the wires during that procedure last time so maybe that is why it doesn't work. I also used pliers to shorten the wire in case it was a problem specifically at the holder end. That means there is less wire to play with although I could strip back the cable more to provide more length.

Obviously there was a light shade and a light bulb too but when it all suddenly stopped working I took the shade away. I needed to try several bulbs and couldn't be doing with fixing a shade each time. And after about the fourth one not working, I just though "oh I will leave it there secured but useless". So the bulb is affixed securely to half a light bulb holder - the bit with the two holes in rather than the cap which I assume is mainly for prettiness - and the bulb is just hanging. Overall, it looks much like a scene from "Rising Damp".

right. This is one thread to avoid. I thought it may be funny.

Yup you have slightly misunderstood what I said - the three wires would be in the rose, but we are getting somewhere.

You definitely need to get rid of that old bulb holder, which is dangerous - the top covering cap is not for prettiness, it's covers the two exposed wires with the two small brass screw/bolt fittings that you put the wires into.

So, you say you have a new one, which is great, and now you need to fit that.
FIRST you need to make sure there is no juice going through the wires - I don't suppose you have a volt meter of any description, (?) so pull the fuse out or knock the trip of the lighting circuit at the consumer unit (fuse box). If you are not sure which one it is then turn the whole house off. Stephen might say different, but I like to be absolutely sure that the fitting is dead.

Once you have removed the top cover, make sure you slip this over the cable! There's nothing worse than getting all wired up and realise you have left that cap off. It is easily forgotten, and can be a bit of a pain when it then keeps sliding down the cable when you are trying to wire the holder up. Can test the patience of a saint! You could try a bit of tape just to keep it out of the way up by the rose while you do the wiring.

Before you attempt to fit the holder, take it to a good light source and look to see that the two screws are clear of the holes, that's all you need to do - the screws should stay in place and it will then be ready for wiring before you climb the ladder!

It is fiddly but there is no need to unscrew the two little bolts so far that they fall out - just unscrew them enough to poke the brown and the blue cables in and then tighten them down. To make sure there is good contact, I always strip the brown and blue sleeve back to about 15 to 20 mm, twist them twixt fingers so there are no loose strands and then fold back in half so you then have about 10mm to poke in the two holes.

You should also make sure you have enough of the brown and blue wire to wind around the supports, which will prevent a strain on the blue and brown wires if they are ever pulled, say when fitting the lampshade. I have found many a light fitting where this has not been done - not the end of the world, but if you want to do it right............

Getting right inside the fitting and outside is desirable, but will take a bit longer if you have the patience. You need to get the amount of the outer casing of the flex back enough so you can expose the wires and have enough to do the wiring and go round the supports, and just enough so that the brown and blue casing doesn't show above the cover/cap of the bulb holder.

One other tip - with heat, dust, grit etc over time the threaded shade holder on the bottom of the fitting can jam so if at a future date you want to fit a new lampshade it can be a bugger to unscrew, so put some WD40 or say 3in1 oil on the threads - just a smear.

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 13th September 2014, 8:39 PM BST

Yup you have slightly misunderstood what I said - the three wires would be in the rose, but we are getting somewhere.

You definitely need to get rid of that old bulb holder, which is dangerous - the top covering cap is not for prettiness, it's covers the two exposed wires with the two small brass screw/bolt fittings that you put the wires into.

So, you say you have a new one, which is great, and now you need to fit that.
FIRST you need to make sure there is no juice going through the wires - I don't suppose you have a volt meter of any description, (?) so pull the fuse out or knock the trip of the lighting circuit at the consumer unit (fuse box). If you are not sure which one it is then turn the whole house off. Stephen might say different, but I like to be absolutely sure that the fitting is dead.

Once you have removed the top cover, make sure you slip this over the cable! There's nothing worse than getting all wired up and realise you have left that cap off. It is easily forgotten, and can be a bit of a pain when it then keeps sliding down the cable when you are trying to wire the holder up. Can test the patience of a saint! You could try a bit of tape just to keep it out of the way up by the rose while you do the wiring.

Before you attempt to fit the holder, take it to a good light source and look to see that the two screws are clear of the holes, that's all you need to do - the screws should stay in place and it will then be ready for wiring before you climb the ladder!

It is fiddly but there is no need to unscrew the two little bolts so far that they fall out - just unscrew them enough to poke the brown and the blue cables in and then tighten them down. To make sure there is good contact, I always strip the brown and blue sleeve back to about 15 to 20 mm, twist them twixt fingers so there are no loose strands and then fold back in half so you then have about 10mm to poke in the two holes.

You should also make sure you have enough of the brown and blue wire to wind around the supports, which will prevent a strain on the blue and brown wires if they are ever pulled, say when fitting the lampshade. I have found many a light fitting where this has not been done - not the end of the world, but if you want to do it right............

Getting right inside the fitting and outside is desirable, but will take a bit longer if you have the patience. You need to get the amount of the outer casing of the flex back enough so you can expose the wires and have enough to do the wiring and go round the supports, and just enough so that the brown and blue casing doesn't show above the cover/cap of the bulb holder.

One other tip - with heat, dust, grit etc over time the threaded shade holder on the bottom of the fitting can jam so if at a future date you want to fit a new lampshade it can be a bugger to unscrew, so put some WD40 or say 3in1 oil on the threads - just a smear.

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Right. Thank you. I worked through the description steadily and understood every word. I also feel it is what I have done though in a more basic way. My main feeling is that it isn't a fuse problem because other lighting on the same circuit works. So could there be anything between a decent fuse and the fitting that could be preventing the flow? I have heard of shorting but I don't know what causes it. Could it be that?

I've a feeling we're coming to the punchline...