I've got a sitcom under consideration at Radio 4, and part of it takes place in - you've guessed it, a charity shop. Just so you don't think I've nicked your idea if(a very big if) mine ever gets made!
Oh, and Lazzard's criticism was marvellous, take it to heart.
Ha! Congratulations - hope it works out for you! Yes I've tried to take on board his comments with the latest draft (see two posts back). Good luck!
You might want to put some action in it Steve.
Yes I've done that Marc - I've rewritten 90% of the script and applied almost all of his suggestions.
His feedback was:
- Don't need to describe shop - there are five on every high street (amended this - now just one line)
- Too many people - at opening at least - if you must have 6 characters you need to introduce them slower. (now just 3 characters in opening scene and introduce other characters much slower)
- Currently that second paragraph is a nightmare - I'm having to constantly refer back to it to see who's who (amended)
- First gag is 'reported' gag - a pet peeve of mine - don't TELL me about something funny that happened, SHOW me something funny happening (removed - and going to show that gag later in the script)
- Technical note - if you're dividing one persons dialogue with action you need to put the character name in again - and don't capitalise character in action - not in this format anyway as it confuses (haven't amended this yet as I am just drafting at this stage - but recognise this needs to change)
- "This is my dress" is good line - first laugh (kept)
- I don't know who anyone is at this point (hopefully you do now)
- And now there's SALLY, another one!
- Rita's dialogue is a bit on the nose - but at leastI I now know who Sally is.
- Is Pam another a character? Could make a nice running gag - but again, it's talking about something funny rather than showing - but you might get away with it. (Amended the dialogue to make it a funnier gag - and a more showy gag - stilettos etc)
- The Tim stuff is just banter really - I'm having trouble working out what his relationship is to the others - a clearer description on introduction would have helped, but he got lost in that busy second paragraph. (Changed when I introduce Tim - and amended the 'banter')
- The plot emerges!
Sorry Steve. Don't mean to be dense but what is the action here. Not interaction but action?
Ah sorry - I misread you Marc!! I thought you said you might want to 'action some of it'! Whoops! Yes I will, thanks. The next scene Tim rugby tackles an old lady. But I will add some more action in...
At the moment I am just focusing on the dialogue but recognise they need to be doing something whilst they are talking. I'll add this in.
The whole action should be the skeleton on which the carapace sits. Lazard has given you some broad bullet point notes on a rough line by line basis. But you need to get the groundwork working first. You'd need an Alan Bennett Or an Alan Bennett to write a sitcom based purely on banter, but he wouldn't do it because it doesn't work. it's all about telling a story and you need to set up the plot straight from the start or as early as possible.
The thing is - it just starts off small and then stays that way.
You need a much brighter opening IMHO.
For instance:
Start with exterior of Charity shop - establishes things lot quicker than looking around a busy set.
Have the new girl looking at a bit of paper and looking up at the sign - establish she's new without all that chit-chat (you could even have her walking past "Peacocks- 'Closing Down Sale")
Have an old lady come out of the shop door, only to be chased by Tim who rugby tackles her to the ground - all in front of the astonished new girl who will wonder - along with us - what's she's walking into.
Nice big opening that feels like you're joining something already in progress.
Now you just need to carry on at the same level!!
Just an example, but do you get what I mean?
Thanks very much for this, makes complete sense.
I guess my problem is I LOVE dialogue! My favourite sitcoms are so dialogue heavy (Seinfeld being one example) that I enjoy just people talking, and talking complete nonsense. The sitcom that I created - Rules of Life - nothing much happened, except some guy analysed the way people lived and behaved. It was very much a sitcom that focused on the minutiae rather than anything majorly outlandish happening. I believe (maybe wrongly) that my strength as a writer is in creating believable, likeable dialogue.
I agree with the points you make but I don't want to write and make a sitcom that is predominately slapstick. I think Tim rugby tackling an old lady is a great idea but I don't want that to be the opening gag and for me to then continue with big set pieces like that throughout the rest of the show. I'd like to slowly build up to something like. For example I've planted the fact in scene one they've had a spate of robberies and that they've got a codeword for when they suspect someone is stealing 'anyone seen my umbrella'. I am imagining two thirds of the way through the show Ellie pops out for lunch, it's raining, she asks 'has anyone seen my umbrella', Tim leaps into action, takes down the old lady - carnage ensues etc.
But then again I've not got anything on tele so what do I know! I guess I am just writing what I enjoy. But I take on board your points, and I'll give it some proper thought.
thanks again, it is much appreciated.
I am going to be really harsh here Steve but the dialogue isn't great. Sorry. Either technically or character wise. Sorry to be so negative but as the line in Chicago says - it needs work. The main tool in the pros arsenal is the ability to self edit.
You've got to go with what you're happy with - it's your stuff!
I would urge you not to get to caught up in the realistic dialogue thing.
Great dialogue is rarely realistic!
Fair enough Marc. I've been advised by a handful of people to try and write things similar in nature (a similar voice, similar style) to my last project but place it in a different situation as they found it funny, and enjoyed it. This is what I am trying to do. I'm more than happy to self edit, as you've now told me twice(!) but this type of dialogue is what ended up getting my only sitcom produced, and picked up by a good production company so I won't move too far away from it - I am not good enough to move too far away from it. That's not to say it can't be hugely improved because it can, but the style will remain the same.
That's an interesting point Lazzard - not sure I entirely agree. For me it is very dependant on the situation the characters find themselves in. Cheers again.
I'll stop boring you all now and go back to it! Good luck in all your projects, and thanks for your help.
Steve
Fair play Steve, I didn't realise your sitcom had been produced by the way. It's not the type but the craft I was commenting on re dialogue. Looking forward to seeing something edited. Either way best of luck with everything.
I'd be interested to know wether people wanted you to lose the first-person V.O narrative element of "Rules of Life".
It seemed to me that that, and the video-trickery, gave it a distinctive tone, rather than any 'realistic' dialogue - I mean what could be more un-natuaral than a V.O ??
For my money you'd be better off transposing that style onto your 'death' idea.
I think what you are doing here is bland compared to your other stuff - which is really nicely put together.
And by the way - you start that one with a fart-gag!
So don't come the "I want to keep it subtle" with me!
Best of luck in all you endeavours
Quote: Lazzard @ 10th July 2014, 7:01 PM BSTI'd be interested to know wether people wanted you to lose the first-person V.O narrative element of "Rules of Life".
It seemed to me that that, and the video-trickery, gave it a distinctive tone, rather than any 'realistic' dialogue - I mean what could be more un-natuaral than a V.O ??
For my money you'd be better off transposing that style onto your 'death' idea.
I think what you are doing here is bland compared to your other stuff - which is really nicely put together.
This *especially* the bit about trying that style with the 'death' idea... (or something else with the same "voice" but a sufficiently different setup to avoid the inevitable "something similar" comparisons.)
The problem with the dialogue you've got in this draft at the moment - admittedly only a couple of scenes' worth - is that it's relying heavily on set piece jokes and Gardener's World references because none of the characters appears to have enough wit, or self-delusion, or cynical enough in their observations on how life works to grab the attention. If Rita reacted to mishaps in the store with panic, ferocity or a real flair for covering things up that marked her out as a strong central character, or to a lesser extent if Joan had *good* put downs the premise might show more promise.