Without doubt, I find this the hardest aspect of writing. Finding plots that are interesting, comic, believable and character driven is so hard.
Where do you even start?
I have read the SitcomGeek posts on the subject but thought I would ask around here.
Is there a magic secret to plotting? How do you take any idea and make it work? Do you ever know for sure whether a plot will work before you write an episode?
I don't know.
I hope this helps!
Even what feels like a good, thought through plot can turn shitty when you write it up. Or bits suddenly obviously don't add up.
Basically watch Seinfeld and break down what they did there. Because they're the bestest.
Well first of all once you've got your characters most of it takes care of it's self.
Basil Fawlty will never ask for help, is hopelessly ambitious and is scared of his wife.
Throw him into any situation and it'll begin to write it's self.
But also try setting up a simple problem for each of your characters, then throw in some obstacles and see how they cope.
Quote: sootyj @ August 21 2013, 10:29 PM BSTWell first of all once you've got your characters most of it takes care of it's self.
Really Soots? I'm not sure about this. I know my characters. I know how they react to things. But it is still hard to make the plot coherent.
Thanks Matthew, glad I'm not the only one. I haven't actually watched that much Seinfeld (which makes me a bad person, I know). Will check it out. I've always thought Frasier had some decent plots as well.
Quote: Jennie @ August 21 2013, 10:32 PM BSTThanks Matthew, glad I'm not the only one. I haven't actually watched that much Seinfeld (which makes me a bad person, I know). Will check it out. I've always thought Frasier had some decent plots as well.
Once it gets going (Season 3 on), there are often four main characters with four plots that criss cross and collide. A thing of sitcom writing beauty.
Well it's once your REALLY know your characters, then their actions become predictable and normal.
But you should be able to break most stories down into about 10 beats, and then try and give 2 of the characters contradictory aims.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ August 21 2013, 10:34 PM BSTOnce it gets going (Season 3 on), there are often four main characters with four plots that criss cross and collide. A thing of sitcom writing beauty.
The multi story plots in Friends were a work of art.
Quote: Jennie @ August 21 2013, 10:32 PM BSTReally Soots? I'm not sure about this. I know my characters. I know how they react to things. But it is still hard to make the plot coherent.
Do you do a lot planning before-hand?
I always do what I refer to as a 'Plot skeleton'; which is basically a line for each scene in bullet point form; that way you can easily see and move stuff around; see what flows best into each other and how you might develop one strand or another.
Works for me anyway.
I realise this isn't what you were actually asking for.
I'm sorry.
Yup me to, like I say.
You want a beginning, middle, end and you need to have most of the ideas for the episode summed up in page one.
By the mid point everyone should be in crisis and the second half is how the crisis is resolved.
Quote: sootyj @ August 21 2013, 10:40 PM BSTYup me to, like I say.
You want a beginning, middle, end and you need to have most of the ideas for the episode summed up in page one.
Page one of the actual script? I wouldn't try and get every single plot running as early as that myself, as long as it's within the first few pages I'm happy, otherwise it can seem a bit forced in.
Not all but a rough summation of whats going to happen, obviously not all of the plot points.
Are you talking about plot or structure?
With plotting I always end up adding too much, so the main trick is to make sure you don't add too many ideas, otherwise it loses focus. It's easiest to do this if the plot comes from the faults of the characters. So, let's say Henry has spent all his money gambling and needs to get money. Then you can sketch out your plot on the sole basis of 'Henry goes to ridiculous lengths to get money'. You need to do the same for your other characters as well, though, and have at least two storylines. So, annoyed at Henry's gambling, Sam continuously tries to stage an intervention (or something). Either 'Sam goes to ridiculous lengths to stage an intervention' or 'Sam starts of looking for advice on interventions but is converted by a religious cult who say he can cure his friend by invoking the spirit of Lord Blathma from the planet Froggle'.
When it comes to structure, you want to break it down into inciting incident, followed by crisis, then climax, then resolution.
So inciting incident is what it sounds like: the event that kicks everything off. (Henry discovers he has run out of cash, Sam gets angry at Henry and vows to change him).
In the traditional format, everything would go well at first (Sam is invited in by a lovely group who know everything about interventions, and Henry finds a get-quick-rich scheme by working for the local mob).
Then there's the crisis, which is when things start turning. (Henry is asked a scary favour by the mob, Sam is asked to do some weird things by the cult).
Then built up to the climax: (Henry is forced to pull some kind of stunt/escape the mob in a ridiculous way/Sam has to flee the cult in a ridiculous way)
Climax: The chase scene or whatever when the characters are in peril and they just about manage to get away/or fail in their quest usually if its a sticom.
Resolution: Just round it off with a short funny scene.
So there's your traditional plotting/structure thing. They always say 'break the rules' etc, but there really aren't that many rules to it. Starting with the traditional plotting/structure can spark ideas and help you come up with something sim[;e, then forget about it and do whatever's funny.
Personally, I don't plot then write. I plot as I go along, then edit & rewrite.
This is (mostly) considered the wrong way of doing things.
It certainly doesn't make things easier.
I don't particularly like shows where the plot so obviously leads the comedy/characters. Others do. Then again, there are a lot of technicians writing comedy these days, all following a manual of how to write sitcom, as opposed to having much comedic inspiration. Plenty of hack comedy jobs to fill.
Galton & Simpson's shows are one of the best examples of how a very small initial idea - coupled with great characters - can produce something which is both funny and credible as a story. They didn't worry about meticulously plotting an episode in advance, they wrote the plots as they wrote the episodes. Too many comedy nerds (and that includes writers/producers) seem to think that you can't write the episode without the plot worked out in advance. This is (imo) misguided and doesn't take into account how really good writing works - i.e. inspiration coming during the process of writing.
Often, too much focus on the plot is used as a distraction from the fact that the characters are dull and there's not much funny going on. 'Great' plots are not always necessary for memorable comedy, whatever anyone might tell you.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ August 21 2013, 10:28 PM BSTBasically watch Seinfeld and break down what they did there. Because they're the bestest.
Unless, of course, you find Seinfeld (and Frasier, whilst we're at it) often smug and contrived in the comedy and predictable/trite when it comes to the plotting, in which case... don't.
('Seinfeld' is, of course, possibly the most unjustifiably deified sitcoms ever made.
*Kramer bursts through the door, to once again set-up the "wacky" C-story... "Hey Jerry! I just met a guy who's selling contrived sitcom plots for under ten dollars a piece!"*)
Quote: T.W. @ August 22 2013, 1:31 AM BSTPersonally, I don't plot then write. I plot as I go along, then edit & rewrite.
I agree - the characters tell you what the story is.
But.
I tried writing a novel recently. I started out with a simple premise (with no end plotted)and stopped after 18 pages because it was just so different to what I thought I was going to write. The tone and narrators voice quickly became very different to anything I had in mind when I started. I became frustrated and strangely annoyed at this literary hijacking and stopped writing in a sulk!
Has this happened to anyone else? Or is it just me and does anyone know a good therapist?
PS. I never got/liked Seinfeld...
Quote: T.W. @ August 22 2013, 1:31 AM BSTPersonally, I don't plot then write. I plot as I go along, then edit & rewrite.
This is (mostly) considered the wrong way of doing things.
It certainly doesn't make things easier.
I don't particularly like shows where the plot so obviously leads the comedy/characters. Others do. Then again, there are a lot of technicians writing comedy these days, all following a manual of how to write sitcom, as opposed to having much comedic inspiration. Plenty of hack comedy jobs to fill.
Galton & Simpson's shows are one of the best examples of how a very small initial idea - coupled with great characters - can produce something which is both funny and credible as a story. They didn't worry about meticulously plotting an episode in advance, they wrote the plots as they wrote the episodes. Too many comedy nerds (and that includes writers/producers) seem to think that you can't write the episode without the plot worked out in advance. This is (imo) misguided and doesn't take into account how really good writing works - i.e. inspiration coming during the process of writing.
Often, too much focus on the plot is used as a distraction from the fact that the characters are dull and there's not much funny going on. 'Great' plots are not always necessary for memorable comedy, whatever anyone might tell you.
Unless, of course, you find Seinfeld (and Frasier, whilst we're at it) often smug and contrived in the comedy and predictable/trite when it comes to the plotting, in which case... don't.
('Seinfeld' is, of course, possibly the most unjustifiably deified sitcoms ever made.
*Kramer bursts through the door, to once again set-up the "wacky" C-story... "Hey Jerry! I just met a guy who's selling contrived sitcom plots for under ten dollars a piece!"*)
That's what I was trying to say but my learned friend put it better
I've abandoned scripts for weeks because I've not known what happens next
Because I haven't known what the characters would do
Because I haven't known the characters
Quote: sootyj @ August 22 2013, 6:01 AM BSTThat's what I was trying to say but my learned friend put it better
I've abandoned scripts for weeks because I've not known what happens next
Because I haven't known what the characters would do
Because I haven't known the characters
Yeah, I get that. I plot ahead because if I don't I lose focus and too many ideas get crammed into one episode. But then you really can't get from A to B if you don't understand what characters you're working with.
I very rarely know the end as well. I tend to think of a one sentence plot and then do a scene-by-scene, but the jokes at the end/the climax I leave until I'm writing it. You also have to be ready to completely scrap your scene-by-scene, in my opinion, because sometimes when you start writing other (better) ideas naturally come to mind, but plotting ahead does give you direction IMO.