Quote: zooo @ April 23 2013, 10:58 PM BSTI bet you wore a nice white lacy dress too.
As Godot might say, I totes rocked that lacey dress. 
Why does anyone need religion? Page 20
It should be natural, but it more often than not isn't.
Quote: Nogget @ April 24 2013, 11:58 AM BSTFor example, we never say 'Grace' at mealtimes, but it would be nice to pause to get into an appreciative frame mind.
Depends what you're eating.
Quote: Nogget @ April 24 2013, 11:58 AM BSTYou pray though, don't you?
I'm an atheist, but I think there's something to be said for praying, as a meditation. For example, we never say 'Grace' at mealtimes, but it would be nice to pause to get into an appreciative frame mind. Gratitude is a good thing.
Yup I pray, but never for myself. I also pray to give thanks.
Quote: lofthouse @ April 24 2013, 11:58 AM BSTSorry I don't really follow most of that
My bad
But there is no hell
That's just man made crap to control and scare people
Were all Gods children and he loves us all
He doesn't punish anybody - even evil scum bags
Non believers seem to think believers have a very rigid belief system, they don't seem to think we are capable of believing anything but what we are told. There are many people who believe in God but do not follow the rather rigid and exact form most atheists seem to think they do. Many people with belief are to embarrassed to state their beliefs, as it is deeply unfashionable in this day and age. But I have never been fashionable and have always followed my own lead, not anyone elses.
I've always been fascinated by animism as a belief system,
Animism suggests endless reincarnation returning in endless forms till you ascend into perfect oneness with the universe
Except if you get it wrong; if bitterness and recrimination or an over powering sense of inadequacy pollute your very nature. Then you're trapped in an endless series of incarnations that reflect your inadequate, unfunny, argumentative self.
For example; a dung beetle, blue bottle or fungus growing on a diseased elephant's scrotum.
Or worst of all an internet troll.
The names may change but the poor lost souls stay lost.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ April 24 2013, 6:49 AM BSTUnderstand that I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they want. Freedom of thought is a fundamental, inviolable right.
That doesn't mean I have to respect the belief itself.
When people make stuff up and present it as the reality of the universe, everyone has the right to call them on it.
Make stuff up? Your rights? Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear....Maintains dignified silence 
Quote: sootyj @ April 24 2013, 12:50 PM BSTFor example; a dung beetle, blue bottle or fungus growing on a diseased elephant's scrotum.
Elephants don't have scrotums - their bollocks are internal !
For gods sake man, hold together a cogent argument
I said the poor pachyderm was diseased.
By an externalised scrotum it would appear.
I've never understood what an internet troll is. I mean is it an agent provocateur or just someone who is insulting. Many people accused RC of being a troll, but I always found his input very entertaining, and miss his input. I don't really get what a troll is?
Lots of definitions; I've always stuck with some one who takes on a false persona and attitudes, purely to cause upset and argument.
RC bless him may not have given his name (it was actually Jeffrey Gaybum) but I think he was quite sincere and open up his aims to wind people up.
Quote: sootyj @ April 24 2013, 1:07 PM BSTLots of definitions; I've always stuck with some one who takes on a false persona and attitudes, purely to cause upset and argument.
RC bless him may not have given his name (it was actually Jeffrey Gaybum) but I think he was quite sincere and open up his aims to wind people up.
So an agent provocateur really, don't see the problem with that, as long as it doesn't turn into bullying. I enjoy a bit of robust disagreement, 
I think that's the essential thing is a troll only wants discord and upset
One of the things I often ask religious folks about is what they expect in the afterlife.
Pretty much uniformly they expect to see their loved ones again. Which is nice. But their theories tend to fall apart a bit when you press them on the details.
For example, what age are you in "heaven"?
Which loved ones do you get to meet?
If Fred West loved his kids, do they have to spend eternity in his company, even if they hated him?
What if I spend 20 years married to one woman, she dies, then I spend another 20 years married to another. Do I get to live with both of them when I die? What if they didn't get on?
What if my parents had a kid that died before me and my sister were born? Do I have to spend eternity as the middle child with some kid I never even met? Is the dead kid doomed to knock about heaven as a two-year old forever?
It's a bit of a headf**k and I wouldn't mind hearing what the religious/believing types in this thread think about it.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ April 24 2013, 1:42 PM BSTOne of the things I often ask religious folks about is what they expect in the afterlife.
Pretty much uniformly they expect to see their loved ones again. Which is nice. But their theories tend to fall apart a bit when you press them on the details.
For example, what age are you in "heaven"?
Which loved ones do you get to meet?
If Fred West loved his kids, do they have to spend eternity in his company, even if they hated him?
What if I spend 20 years married to one woman, she dies, then I spend another 20 years married to another. Do I get to live with both of them when I die? What if they didn't get on?
What if my parents had a kid that died before me and my sister were born? Do I have to spend eternity as the middle child with some kid I never even met? Is the dead kid doomed to knock about heaven as a two-year old forever?
It's a bit of a headf**k and I wouldn't mind hearing what the religious/believing types in this thread think about it.
I don't, these are questions I can't answer, I just instinctively believe there is a God, I don't believe for what is in it for me, as sadly many do. For all I know I vanish into dust, or come back again, I really don't know. I just believe in God and try to live as good a life as I can, my main law is first do no harm, one shared by many believers and none believers. As for the rest it is a mystery and will be revealed one way or the other when we die
Quote: Pingl @ April 24 2013, 1:47 PM BSTI just instinctively believe there is a God
If you were to bring this line of argument to an atheist discussion forum, people would assume you were trolling.