Does one need to go to Oxbridge to stand a chance Page 4

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/200812/the-tears-clown

So, according to science, comedians tend to be above average intelligence or, you know, 'quite bright.' (also, a bit messed up but that's for another thread)

As for whether Oxbridge contains people of above average intelligence. Seriously, it's not full of dimwits. I know that George Osbourne went there but he's the exception that proves the rule.

I know it gives comfort to us proles to think that it's a hotbed of graft and privilege, but really, it's full of normal, pleasant people who are just smarter than me. I've no problem with them being smarter than me, I'm quite smart myself.

So, most comedians tend to be quite smart. Smart people go to Oxbridge. QEFD.

I didn't realise this thread was still going.

I don't really consider it a conspiracy, I suppose I am thinking more along these lines: if you didn't go to Oxbridge, or even didn't go to university at all, are your chances of even getting into comedy writing (as opposed to performing) significantly hindered? Specifically with regard to BBC sketch shows and the like.

I'm not saying it's impossible, and I'm not saying Oxbridge graduates don't have to work bloody hard, I'm just asking if people think it makes an inordinate difference irrespective of the quality of the work.

To be honest, I'm just playing devil's advocate really. I'm perfectly happy to accept that the quality of writing is simply better.

Nah, the British class system is alive and well.

At least I hope it is. I've just forked out 30 nicker for a phoney title and a fake OBE.

Just out of interest, how is Toksvig a c**t? (Aside from the obvious heinous sin of being middle class.)

Or am I just missing a pun? It does happen.

Quote: David Salisbury @ September 30 2012, 11:16 PM BST

Thank you

It's Basil Fotherington-Thomas from the immortal Molesworth books.

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That's the one. Molesworth!

Thanks for putting me out of my misery, Mr Salisbury.

Quote: zooo @ October 5 2012, 9:12 PM BST

Just out of interest, how is Toksvig a c**t? (Aside from the obvious heinous sin of being middle class.)

Or am I just missing a pun? It does happen.

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Is that a riddle or are you addressing an earlier poster?

Oh right, you were talking to Jinky.

Quote: zooo @ October 5 2012, 9:12 PM BST

Just out of interest, how is Toksvig a c**t? (Aside from the obvious heinous sin of being middle class.)

Or am I just missing a pun? It does happen.

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Short female lesbian educated middle class woman working in comedy... but successful ! I'm guessing the reason word begins with an S. And no, not short.

Quote: Ignatius Rake @ October 5 2012, 9:15 PM BST

Oh right, you were talking to Jinky.

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Sorry, I should have quoted him!

Quote: Godot Taxis @ October 2 2012, 12:23 PM BST

Jimmy Carr
Mark watson
Andy parsons
Al murray
josie long
john cleese
armando iannucci
david schneider
sacha baron cohen
david mitchell
john bird
laura solon
john fortune
katy brand
robert webb
lucy montgomery
Richard Ayoade
David Baddiel
Alexander Armstrong
Clive Anderson
Barunka O'Shaughnessy
Hugh Dennis
Stephen Fry
Matthew Holness
Tim Key
Ben Miller
Steve Punt
Griff Rhys Jones
Katherine Parkinson
Sue Perkins
Sandi Toksvig

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Sandi Toksvig is number 31 on that list. She should really be at number 73.

Quote: zooo @ October 5 2012, 9:12 PM BST

Just out of interest, how is Toksvig a c**t?

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Just.

I'd give a longer answer but I've lost the will to live. At least in terms of 'comedy'.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ October 2 2012, 12:23 PM BST

It is shocking. Here's a list of some. There are many more - and many more behind the camera and pushing pens.

Jimmy Carr
Mark watson
Andy parsons
Al murray
josie long
john cleese
armando iannucci
david schneider
sacha baron cohen
david mitchell
john bird
laura solon
john fortune
katy brand
robert webb
lucy montgomery
Richard Ayoade
David Baddiel
Alexander Armstrong
Clive Anderson
Barunka O'Shaughnessy
Hugh Dennis
Stephen Fry
Matthew Holness
Tim Key
Ben Miller
Steve Punt
Griff Rhys Jones
Katherine Parkinson
Sue Perkins
Sandi Toksvig

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Looking at that list I find it hard to believe some of them would have got known in the comedy industry without their posh alma mater. Here's some more who are at least as worthy:

Perkins' and Baddiel's comedy partners, Lee, Herring, Cook, Moore, Barker, Monty Python, The Goodies, The Inbetweeners, Rowan Atkinson, Mel Smith, Emma Thompson, Rory McGrath, Jimmy Mulville, Ian Hislop, Angus Deayton, Nick Hancock, David Lloyd, Richard Curtis and more...

Of course it helps, it always, it's naive in the extreme to assume otherwise. Armstrong recently joked about it on a Steve Wright radio interview, so they know they're fast tracked in. An Oxbridge degree helps you in every career path, including comedy, and especially BBC or other TV comedy.

Yeah Stephen Fry for example what an ignorant twat and Hugh Laurie, don't get me started, let's see him try to act for example... oh now hang on... wait a minute.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 6 2012, 9:25 AM BST

Here's some more who are at least as worthy:

Perkins' and Baddiel's comedy partners, Lee, Herring, Cook, Moore, Barker, Monty Python, The Goodies, The Inbetweeners, Rowan Atkinson, Mel Smith, Emma Thompson, Rory McGrath, Jimmy Mulville, Ian Hislop, Angus Deayton, Nick Hancock, David Lloyd, Richard Curtis and more...

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Barker?

? Some of them above are very talented, some are natural actors, but then why not go to LAMDA or RADA? Answer, because they are more ambitious, Marc, these bods above can still become actors as well, but they're aiming higher than that. A RADA degree might not get you a career as a famous comedy writer/performer like Cleese or Cook but an Oxbridge degree will. It also add that bit of class they're after and keeps their parents happy.

Taste is another factor. Not everyone finds Fry hilarious, I'll add, some think he's pompous and rarefied, many think a lot of them are smug. More importantly tho, how many naturally talented comedians have been unable to get their foot on TV because so many of the spaces are taken by that lot?

Okay not Barker, thought he was.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 6 2012, 10:25 AM BST

A RADA degree might not get you a career as a famous comedy writer/performer like Cleese or Cook but an Oxbridge degree will.

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What an absolute load of bollocks!

Oxbridge graduates do play a disproportionate role in our national life, particularly given those institutions socially skewed recruitment, which hardly makes them wholly reflective of the national talent pool; and, as Godot says, exceptionalism, is to an extent a myth, propounded by those who have been successful or who admire success, and, perhaps because of this, have a slightly skewed view of cause and effect. Success always requires a significant amount of ability and an impressive work ethic, but these in themselves are not exceptional and do not guarantee success, whereas an Oxbridge degree will boost your chances considerably. True genius on the other hand is actually quite rare and tends to succeed in spite rather than because of the system.

Whilst there is something to be said for decrying Britain's retreat from social mobility, and the educational elitism that compounds rather than challenges this phenomenon, I am not sure sketch comedy is necessarily the place I would chose to begin the revolution.