Under my jeans or over them?
Lovely top of the page post, there.
How slutty are you? Page 3
Quote: Marc P @ June 16 2011, 9:56 AM BSTSorry SootyJ have to disagree with this one. I think you are missing the point. You seem to be nudging towards the Burka.
Quite right. The day they start wearing the Burka in women's volleyball is the day I stop leaving a sticky mess over the television. Yes, I said over.
Quote: roscoff @ June 16 2011, 11:34 AM BSTQuite right. The day they start wearing the Burka in women's volleyball is the day I stop leaving a sticky mess over the television. Yes, I said over.
Leave Nigella Lawson out of this!
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ June 16 2011, 10:32 AM BSTCalling these events "Slutwalks" was a big mistake. I don't think that its quite possible to reclaim a word like "slut",
The word slut cannot really be reclaimed because it has no positive connotations; it originally meant a slovenly woman, and has come by association to mean one of loose morals. The best connotation that can be put on the slutwalk is "just because I appear to have no self-respect it does not mean I put out."
On the point of dressing provocatively, which I would say is not quite the same thing as looking like a slut, it is simply emphasising intrinsic design features. The female body has exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics to send signals to men; the more these are emphasised the stronger that signal is going to be. It is difficult for men not to look because that is what they are programmed to do.
However there is no particular evidence that rape is 'normal' human sexual behaviour; it is rare in nature. The only other example I can think of is oran utangs, who also mate face to face. Eye to eye contact can provoke aggression, so perhaps women would be safer if they were to walk around stark naked with a bag on their head.
Robyn is right, as ever. 
Quote: zooo @ June 16 2011, 12:04 PM BSTRobyn is right, as ever.
This.
But it's a given Robyn is always, mostly right. Except when she's wrong. Then she's not.
Quote: Timbo @ June 16 2011, 11:57 AM BSTThe word slut cannot really be reclaimed because it has no positive connotations; it originally meant a slovenly woman, and has come by association to mean one of loose morals. The best connotation that can be put on the slutwalk is "just because I appear to have no self-respect it does not mean I put out."
On the point of dressing provocatively, which I would say is not quite the same thing as looking like a slut, it is simply emphasising intrinsic design features. The female body has exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics to send signals to men; the more these are emphasised the stronger that signal is going to be. It is difficult for men not to look because that is what they are programmed to do.
However there is no particular evidence that rape is 'normal' human sexual behaviour; it is rare in nature. The only other example I can think of is oran utangs, who also mate face to face. Eye to eye contact can provoke aggression, so perhaps women would be safer if they were to walk around stark naked with a bag on their head.
Men aren't programmed to rape though, as you say. I think looking is less of a problem because there's a difference between dressing to catch someone's eye and dressing supposedly to get sexually attacked. There's no positive connotations to the other word I mentioned (and hate), either, and what I mean is that calling these things "Slutwalks" equates these modes of dress with being, or indeed walking like, a slut. Whether there was a pre-established connection already between the two becomes somewhat besides the point. Parading around dressed like this should, of course, be allowed without women feeling threatened, but the method is not totally effectual and never can be. It's an organised event, in which many women take part at once. I'm guessing a group of men wouldn't see such a walk and decide amongst themselves to attack this group of women. Yet they might ogle, or dismiss it easily as a group of sluts. The word has no positive connotations, as you say, and the events may thus condone deeming people dressed like this "sluts"; propagating the "they were asking for it" mentality and in no way breaking the cycle. Or something which makes sense.
Quote: zooo @ June 16 2011, 12:04 PM BSTRobyn is right, as ever.
No, I'm doing an English degree so I'm just good at pretending to know what I'm talking about.
Quote: Marc P @ June 16 2011, 10:50 AM BSTIt is about men not feeling they are ever justified in raping women.
That's a matter for much improved sex education for men, something that really should be done.
Frankly a lecture on what constitutes rape/harrassment/sexual assault for guys would be an aces idea.
The 'Slutwalk' was an ill thought out knee jerk reaction, gimmicky and pointless, the message it was apparently trying to convey 'that women deserve to be protected from sexual attacks by men' was lost as the whole thing just appeared anti-male and militant.
Sexual attacks have little to do with clothes and more to do with a flaw within the attacker, power, control, mental illness...
Men will always look at women and vica versa, it's human nature, but making someone feel uncomfortable and crossing that line is where it becomes unsavoury.
Teaching our schoolkids, boy's and girl's, about relationsips and respect,responsibility, etc, and the same being done at home should be the first line of defence.
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ June 16 2011, 12:23 PM BST
Well, I'm convinced!
And I suspect this poor police officer (and myself) never suggested that dressing a certain way was an invitation to be raped. Frankly that's insane and be you nudist or stripper it's never an excuse.
God knows the hall mark of any even semicivilised society is the expectation is on the potential perpetrator to show restraint. Societis that blame women for bringing sexual abuse upon themselves are invariably some of the most vile for anyone to live in.
BUT
A police officer who no doubt has years of arresting, flashers, rapers, wankers, heavy breathers and other such criminals. Saying pretty much in his experience dressing a bit more conservatively is just that a bit of advice.
Quote: Shandonbelle @ June 16 2011, 12:26 PM BSTThe 'Slutwalk' was an ill thought out knee jerk reaction, gimmicky and pointless, the message it was apparently trying to convey 'that women deserve to be protected from sexual attacks by men' was lost as the whole thing just appeared anti-male and militant.
Sexual attacks have little to do with clothes and more to do with a flaw within the attacker, power, control, mental illness...
Men will always look at women and vica versa, it's human nature, but making someone feel uncomfortable and crossing that line is where it becomes unsavoury.
Teaching our schoolkids, boy's and girl's, about relationsips and respect,responsibility, etc, and the same being done at home should be the first line of defence.
Very true. And I for one from a professional view am sick and tired of constantly being assumed to being some perpetually horny sex offender. I mean it's like being followed around Greggs by security because I'm fat and they think I'm going to swipe the donuts.
By who? At what age? There's so many issues with it. It's basic respect for women - for people - not to treat one another like this. Men who rape, at some point or otherwise, must know that they are raping. Sexual harassment is a good point though - I would agree with this given some undesirable experiences I've had.
My main problem with Slutwalks, actually, is their potential to deter harassment victims from pressing charges or telling their story. Women, as has been said, don't just get raped for how they're dressed. Slutwalks are meant to be emancipating and protest the sometimes unfair sexual treatment of women, but I personally think they re-establish the connection between being a "Slut" (something with overtly bad connotations) and being assaulted.
Quote: Shandonbelle @ June 16 2011, 12:26 PM BSTTeaching our schoolkids, boy's and girl's, about relationsips and respect,responsibility, etc, and the same being done at home should be the first line of defence.
This.
Quote: sootyj @ June 16 2011, 12:30 PM BSTA police officer who no doubt has years of arresting, flashers, rapers, wankers, heavy breathers and other such criminals. Saying pretty much in his experience dressing a bit more conservatively is just that a bit of advice.
I have issues with the police thing too. My dad's a policeman and I'm allowed to dress however I like. I am not allowed to hang around Camden until 3am and he is reasonably overprotective, but he would never be racist or sexist. As with any protest, ever, you create some kind of "F**k the Police" mentality in order to garner support. I'm pretty sure any person, if being attacked, followed, anything, would gratefully run into an occupied police station if the opportunity presented itself.
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ June 16 2011, 12:23 PM BSTThere's no positive connotations to the other word I mentioned (and hate), either,
I wouldn't say that...
Well, y'know, highly offensive swear word which also describes female genitalia. I don't think there's any positive connotations meaning-wise or socially.