In an ideal world race and sexuality would not be an issue at all, but when a black man is beaten up BECAUSE he is black, or a landlord is killed BECAUSE he is gay then it does have to be faced. I heartily agree, however, that the government is dealing with these issues in a quite awful way. Platitudes are not what is needed.
Quote: Cinnamon @ October 13, 2007, 4:29 PMI'll assume that this is a Thatcher joke. I certainly won't complain about ANY abuse directed at Thatcher.
That's Aarons Grandma you're talking about!
I wait for Tebbit to come and beat me to death with a particularly heavy dossier. 
Goodness, the wink looks a bit pissed off.
Quote: Cinnamon @ October 13, 2007, 4:54 PMIn an ideal world race and sexuality would not be an issue at all, but when a black man is beaten up BECAUSE he is black, or a landlord is killed BECAUSE he is gay then it does have to be faced. I heartily agree, however, that the government is dealing with these issues in a quite awful way. Platitudes are not what is needed.
I think we are in agreement. We want these issues faced and problems resolved but our Politicians and Police Force aren't dealing with it.
As the Police Force is part of Government, then you have to lay the blame with Governments for not taking appropriate action.
The people who beat other people up (for whatever reason) need to be punished with the full force of the law, well, that would work if the law had any force... and we're back to the Government and politicians again...
It's all very well being liberal but if the Police and Courts don't have the power or will to arrest and punish effectively, the 'beating to deaths' will continue. These people who do this need long prison sentences (10 years minimum); or the punishment is not effective. And if they come out and do it again, life imprisonment (until they die in jail).
It's like survivor guilt.
It's senseless, but natural to feel a bit guilty for being lucky enough that race and sexuality don't need to be issues for me every day like thay are for other people.
I agree; they're so worried about pleasing everybody that they give us all pathetic compromises instead of working with their own common sense and ethics (yes, they probably do have ethics).
Quote: Cinnamon @ October 13, 2007, 5:04 PMI agree; they're so worried about pleasing everybody that they give us all pathetic compromises instead of working with their own common sense and ethics (yes, they probably do have ethics).
I know some of them do individually, but when they form a Government they seem to lose all sense of what really matters, i.e. the people they represent. And that's all of the people, not excluding any majorities or minorities!
In then end the individual politicians have to carry the can. If their individual common sense and ethics are over-ridden by the whole that they belong to, then they ought to resign - but they rarely do.
I still say scum, suited and booted with nice ties, silver tongued and smiling, but still scum.
Once very late at night I was asked by a group of black guys that I didn't know if I was scared (of them). I told them that the guys to be really scared of are the white guys in suits with big smiles offering help. They laughed and slapped me on the back!
This thread's gone totally off piste.
It's been far more interesting than the Vivienne Vyle Show.
I saw 20 mins of the VV show it but didn't rate it...
Love Jennifer Saunders stuff though, usually.
Quote: Cinnamon @ October 13, 2007, 3:56 PMIn my (humble) opinion this is a load of bollus. Positive discrimination is the result of a government that has no idea how to face social problems, not of antagonistic minorities.
You misunderstand. I wasn't linking that to positive discrimination (although it's all part of the same big interwoven multicultural, minority web if we're looking at the 'bigger picture'). Just making a general observation. 
Quote: zooo @ October 13, 2007, 4:12 PMAs do majority types. I never hear anyone moaning these days more than white middle aged males.
Why doesn't our opinion matter, what about our rights. etc, etc.Bless their oblivious cotton socks.
It depends as to the context of the complaint. Yes, some people are just plain ridiculous, but others make good points about the hypocrisy of society. And so on.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 13, 2007, 4:20 PMI suspect you get Positive Discrimination issues from both sources, Government and the minority groups themselves. Also, I think both Government and the minority groups can sometimes see discrimination where it doesn't exist.
That isn't to say that there isn't plenty of discrimination because I am sure there is. But I propose that there is also manipulation for selfish ends by both Government and organised minority groups.
Definitely. Don't think anyone argued otherwise, did they? *scratches head*
Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 13, 2007, 4:23 PMThe so called 'majority' do seem to be feeling victimised these days.
Why would that be then?
Society's views on subjects will always be hypocritical. Cottaging is abhorrent but the mile high club is harmless fun, prostitution is disgusting but the escort services are glamorous, racial stereotyping is wrong unless you're in Little Britain...
Quote: zooo @ October 13, 2007, 4:27 PMI like to play my 'I have a foreign surname' card whenever I feel the liberal white guilt piling up.
Bah! What have you to feel guilty about?!
Quote: zooo @ October 13, 2007, 4:40 PMTrue. But I don't think Thatcher killed 6 million people.
Just gave them nightmares.
The world collapsing while I sit in my little cocoon of a comedy site....oh, and I was undercharged in a supermarket today.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 13, 2007, 4:56 PM
Quote: zooo @ October 13, 2007, 5:02 PMIt's like survivor guilt.
It's senseless, but natural to feel a bit guilty for being lucky enough that race and sexuality don't need to be issues for me every day like thay are for other people.
You should only feel guilty if you're playing an active part in the persecution and prejudice which they face!
Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 13, 2007, 5:11 PMI know some of them do individually, but when they form a Government they seem to lose all sense of what really matters, i.e. the people they represent. And that's all of the people, not excluding any majorities or minorities!
It's the civil service that's to blame - you never watched Yes Minister?
