Quote: youngian @ December 17 2010, 11:56 AM GMTManning certainly did a very good impression of someone humiliating and degrading his targets.
How many times have you seen him perform?
Which jokes were used to create this 'very good impression'?
Frankie's 'infamous' jokes are well-documented and we can therefore praise or blame him with some degree of confidence.
Let's allow Bernard the same consideration before deciding whether or not Frankie should be compared to him.
Well Madam, there was a famous one where he told an anti Japanese joke knowing that there were Japs on a table there. Why they were there I don't know but I remember it making the headlines and Manning was very unrepentant. I make no judgment about him doing it, I'm simply reporting what I remember (reading, I wasn't there no).
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ December 17 2010, 12:11 PM GMTWell Madam, there was a famous one where he told an anti Japanese joke knowing that there were Japs on a table there. Why they were there I don't know but I remember it making the headlines and Manning was very unrepentant. I make no judgment about him doing it, I'm simply reporting what I remember (reading, I wasn't there no).
In fairness to you and to Bernard, I'm happy to allow that he was very much 'anti-Japanese'.
However, as the Japanese are not a race, his feelings were not and, indeed, could not have been racist.
As is widely-known and accepted, the Japanese have a most unenviable record re the treatment of POWs in WW2. The Nazis were genial hosts by comparison.
Bernard (who was a young lad of around 10 - 15 years old during the war) harboured life-long ill-feeling toward the Japanese based upon their treatment of his older relatives and many others.
My favourite anti Japanese joke is 'There was a nasty nip in the air, but we soon shot him down'. Not PC today, but funny in its context (the 2nd World War). 
Quote: Lord Meldrum @ December 17 2010, 10:38 AM GMTHe said she married a fighter so he could stop Harvey raping/shagging his mother. That's still about Harvey though. To think it's just about Jordan and Alex Reid is just silly, because it's obviously a dig at Harvey's disability.
I see it as primarily a dig at their relationship. I guess we should applaud Boyle's skill for craftng a joke that can be interpreted in such different manners.
Quote: Aaron @ December 17 2010, 1:15 PM GMTI see it as primarily a dig at their relationship. I guess we should applaud Boyle's skill for craftng a joke that can be interpreted in such different manners.
That's quite a spin to put on a muddled and morally dubious joke.
Quote: chipolata @ December 17 2010, 1:22 PM GMTThat's quite a spin to put on a muddled and morally dubious joke.
Not a spin at all. That's how I see it. It takes the opportunity to use Harvey, perhaps, but he's not the main target. IMO.
Basically, the jokes target was supposed to be Jordan and her husband, but the bit that was supposed to make you gasp and laugh, was about Harvey.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ December 17 2010, 1:35 PM GMTBasically, the jokes target was supposed to be Jordan and her husband, but the bit that was supposed to make you gasp and laugh, was about Harvey.
I don't think even that was so much 'about' him, as that again implies some kind of intent against the child, but it certainly used him, yes.
Quote: Lord Meldrum @ December 17 2010, 11:28 AM GMTStill doesn't matter. The parents of the murdered girls don't deserve jokes made about them. That goes for Katie Price too, like her or not, she has a badly disabled son and does not deserve jokes to be made about him. Jade Goody's mother, like her or not, doesn't deserve to hear jokes about her dead daughter.
I'm afraid the point you are trying to make Veronica, keeps passing me by. I just don't get your argument.
Here's the point:
Whenever Mr, Mrs or Ms X suffers loss, damage or other misfortune, my reaction is somewhere between abject horror and unbridled joy depending upon the extent of the misfortune and the identity of Mr, Mrs or Ms X.
To apply that to the situation at hand, to hear a comedian mocking the Soham victims or their families would (depending upon the joke) probably bring me zero pleasure and some displeasure. On balance, therefore, I'd be displeased.
The Jordan jokes and the Jade joke gave me more pleasure than displeasure. On balance, therefore, I'm pleased by them.
Quote: Veronica Vestibule @ December 17 2010, 2:02 PM GMTHere's the point:
Whenever Mr, Mrs or Ms X suffers loss, damage or other misfortune, my reaction is somewhere between abject horror and unbridled joy depending upon the extent of the misfortune and the identity of Mr, Mrs or Ms X.
To apply that to the situation at hand, to hear a comedian mocking the Soham victims or their families would (depending upon the joke) probably bring me zero pleasure and some displeasure. On balance, therefore, I'd be displeased.
The Jordan jokes and the Jade joke gave me more pleasure than displeasure. On balance, therefore, I'm pleased by them.
It's sad that, by your own admission, you can dehumanise people enough that jokes about their disabled child or dead daughter can bring you pleasure.
Jesus wept. You guys need to read a book. The media is a closed space that reflects back upon itself. Any comment on anyone in the media space is not a comment on a real person, but their media persona. Harvey has one as he is photographed with Jordan (pictures that she stages incidentally and are published by mutual agreement). I just called Nick Clegg a dog f**ker and a police informer in a recent thread. Do you think I believe he is one?
In a metaphorical sense I believe you do.
Quote: chipolata @ December 17 2010, 2:13 PM GMTIt's sad that, by your own admission, you can dehumanise people enough that jokes about their disabled child or dead daughter can bring you pleasure.
*HANDS CHIP A BOX OF TISSUES*
I've laughed at several posthumous and distasteful Diana jokes too - because I found them funnier than they were offensive.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 17 2010, 2:25 PM GMTJesus wept. You guys need to read a book. The media is a closed space that reflects back upon itself. Any comment on anyone in the media space is not a comment on a real person, but their media persona.
Sounds a bit wanky to me.
