Quote: Veronica Vestibule @ December 16 2010, 5:22 PM GMTI don't 'think' the joke is fine.
The joke IS fine (by me).
The funniness and/or offensiveness of any joke, the target of which is someone we know, are determined by our feelings for the targetted person.
So your feelings toward Harvey are...?
Davidson off the telly?! Don't make me laugh! (Yes I know...)
Davidson, Manning and co were on the telly as long as they were at their peak, and got less work when more younger comics were coming through, so they were only ever removed for hard-nosed commercial reasons. Older comics like Brucie knew they had to adapt to stay on TV. Just as 5 years from now Graham Norton will be less omnipresent, unless he manages to adapt.
Benny Hill, now that's more interesting. I think his removal was more political, but also I guess there was a limit to how long he could recycle his sirry irriot characters even though he was still quite popular.
Davidson? Well he has gone beneath my radar and I watch an unhealthy amount of TV.
On a flip note the programme that really made me want to start a fist fight with my telly was that bit of crap with Jasper Carrott. (Where he's in a sitcom with a family?)
One of the characters was a mute kid in a wheel chair. Who was given a sacharine voice over. From my own experience I suspect the actor was capable of some degree of non verbal communication. But the scripters decided the show needed a dreary, sickly dubbed over narrative.
In other words their desire to say the right thing was so all consuming they dneied the person they were supposed to be representing a voice.
Quote: Nogget @ December 16 2010, 5:25 PM GMTSo your feelings toward Harvey are...?
Oh, Nogget, Nogget, Nogget.
Comedy is sometimes a very very complicated business and it can be real pain the bum to type out a long, involved, highly-detailed explanation only to have someone (not necessarily you) reply 'Bollocks'.
However, in short:
The target was by no means Harvey alone.
The targets of the jokes were, not exclusively and in no particular order, Jordan, Harvey and the Great British Public.
I've already said I'd condemn the joke utterly if Harvey were aware of it but he isn't and he never will be - so his feelings about the joke are irrelevant because they don't exist.
Quote: Griff @ December 16 2010, 5:40 PM GMTI have quite fond memories of Benny Hill from long ago, I had him down in my head as an amiable old-school buffoon with a witty turn of phrase and gift for slapstick and comedy songs, and then recently I watched a 'Best of Benny Hill' on ITV3 or something and it was absolute shite. Maybe it was from his final years on ITV when he was long past his best, but it's put me off watching him again for a long while.
Well the guy was on telly for years and years a virtual test card.
So he swung from the sublime to the terrible. Some of his stuff was very clever and expertly acted. Some was just cheap tawdry smut and racism of the lowest order.
I guess no one with a long career can truly maintain a standard.
Quote: sootyj @ December 16 2010, 6:15 PM GMTWell the guy was on telly for years and years a virtual test card.
So he swung from the sublime to the terrible. Some of his stuff was very clever and expertly acted. Some was just cheap tawdry smut and racism of the lowest order.
I guess no one with a long career can truly maintain a standard.
I find him such an odd and ultimately sad man that I find it hard to enjoy anything he did. Although the Hills Angels weren't bad to leer at.
Quote: Anorak @ December 16 2010, 4:55 PM GMTHmm, sounds a little bit like something I wrote somewhere. I admit the piece was something of a rant which I wrote in about half an hour, but the point I was making was this: there are some comics who make jokes about the powerful, and some who make jokes about the powerless. Personally, as said wet liberal, I prefer the former.
I wasn't criticising apparently right-wing people for liking this stuff, merely asking that they stop coming across all hurt and offended when I say I don't like it. The point I was making about Manning, Davidson etc was that they are often cited as outspoken voices suppressed by some liberal media mafia, when in fact they, their jokes and their views were constantly out there in the mainstream.
As I said in the piece, I'm never going to stop people from making jokes I don't like, or from finding stuff funny that I don't. All I asked was to be free to be a wetlib without also being accused of political correctness gone mad and of suppressing free speech.
Although you may be talking about a completely different article of course...
No, guilty, it was yours. Makes more sense when you explain it like that. Not something I've experienced (fans of those comics acting hurt that others don't like them), but I can see where you're coming from in that case. 
Quote: Nogget @ December 16 2010, 5:25 PM GMTSo your feelings toward Harvey are...?
Irrelevant, as Harvey wasn't the target of the joke.
Quote: Anorak @ December 16 2010, 5:26 PM GMTBenny Hill, now that's more interesting. I think his removal was more political, but also I guess there was a limit to how long he could recycle his sirry irriot characters even though he was still quite popular.
Don't forget that a contract for a new series was found in an unopened pile of post next to his body. His Thames cancellation, however, was a mix of internal politics and finances.
Quote: Aaron @ December 16 2010, 7:52 PM GMTIrrelevant, as Harvey wasn't the target of the joke.
He was still mocked, which ain't nice.
Quote: sootyj @ December 16 2010, 5:32 PM GMTOn a flip note the programme that really made me want to start a fist fight with my telly was that bit of crap with Jasper Carrott. (Where he's in a sitcom with a family?)
Quote: Aaron @ December 16 2010, 7:23 PM GMTNo, guilty, it was yours. Makes more sense when you explain it like that. Not something I've experienced (fans of those comics acting hurt that others don't like them), but I can see where you're coming from in that case.
Thanks Aaron. The first half of that piece is a rambling mess.
Don't forget that a contract for a new series was found in an unopened pile of post next to his body.
If only he'd got to that envelope in time ... 
Quote: Veronica Vestibule @ December 16 2010, 5:32 PM GMTThe target was by no means Harvey alone.
What was the target of him then? Seems a bit mean if I am honest, from what I have read here. I must confess to not having seen the show and probably won't.
I do wonder what his motivation is sometimes.
Because when people say he's not funny I disagree.
If he concentrated on being funny and not being as offensive as possible then I think I'd prefer his stuff.
