Foreign students pay alot more than double, they underwrite the whole system.
The grant system worked for maybe 40-50 years but couldn't keep up with rising student numbers. That and an increase in research etc has pushed university costs up in general,
Pre 1948 there was no universal free university education, nor did the education system work towards creating potential new students.
Quote: Chappers @ November 13 2010, 3:44 PM GMTMaybe they should double the fees for overseas students. How do we benefit otherwise?
That would bring overseas students fees up to about £24,000 a term. Seems a bit ridiculous.
Quote: zooo @ November 13 2010, 4:01 PM GMTThey already charge them a hell of a lot more. But I'm not against that. If they can afford it, fine, if they can't there's really no desperate need for them to study in England, surely? So they're not harmed by not coming here.
A lot of them come from countries where our universities far outstrip them for resources and teaching standards.
I like overseas students, they are almost always far nicer than British students. They work harder and bring in more diverse ideas. If you want to create universities that are institutions for higher learning (not just degree mills) then it's worth keeping the influx of overseas students at the level it is now.
Squeeze foreign students too much and they'll just study in America. A lot of the foreigners I knew at uni only studied here because it was cheaper that states.
Quote: PhQnix @ November 13 2010, 6:01 PM GMTA lot of them come from countries where our universities far outstrip them for resources and teaching standards.
I guess so. All the ones in my class were American and Australian (and very nice!) But I suppose I therefore tend to assume they're studying here purely for pleasure/because they've always wanted to spend time in England, etc.
Quote: Chappers @ November 13 2010, 3:44 PM GMTMaybe they should double the fees for overseas students. How do we benefit otherwise?
To £24,000 a year!?
Quote: PhQnix @ November 13 2010, 6:01 PM GMTThat would bring overseas students fees up to about £24,000 a term. Seems a bit ridiculous.
A lot of them come from countries where our universities far outstrip them for resources and teaching standards.
I like overseas students, they are almost always far nicer than British students. They work harder and bring in more diverse ideas. If you want to create universities that are institutions for higher learning (not just degree mills) then it's worth keeping the influx of overseas students at the level it is now.
That.
Basically all my friends are international students, and two have grants from their governments. When they get grants, they have to maintain a certain grade average and then go back to their home countries to work for five years without leave. They also had to get very good grades to get the grants in the first place. All my international friends love the culture here, and we go to see so much art and theatre because it's not all just old news for them. Plus they're all lovely.
Yeh we English are shit, shame we live here!
There are too many universities these days. This means increased competition and dilution of the kudos and power of a degree = obscure pointless degrees for the sake of 'a degree'. 20 years ago, an average kid would go and enter the job market and start to work their way in life. Nowadays they sign up for some dodgy degree at The Univertsity of Bolton, or similar, and think they are destined to be Prime Minister one day.
We just need less Universities, and therefore uni places - and more people who realise that having any old degree from any old third rate former poly or technical college is not the be all and end all.
Kids are being deluded from a very early age that having 'a degree'is some kind of passport to wealth and happiness. People hav fallen, and are still falling, for New labour's bilge about 'university places for all' etc. On the surface, going to, or having a child/grandchild going to uni, makes one feel good - until you scratch the surface.
Read 'Affluenza' by Oliver James. It let's the cat out of the bag.
I saw my old university on telly earlier and was saddened to see it seems to be filled with aggressive drunken idiots now. That's all you need to know about the way universities have gone in recent years.
But surely most universities have always had rugby clubs?
Sometimes I think there is too much emphasis on a degrees. Jobs in the IT industry change so frequently, it's hard to keep up with the new technology. I'd prefer education to be shorter, and more integrated into the real world.
Unless there are an impressive number of interesting ways in which getting it wrong could result in someone dying, jobs are best learnt by doing them. No-one needs a degree in golf course management or, whisper it, media studies.
Quote: Timbo @ November 14 2010, 11:16 PM GMTUnless there are a large number of interesting ways in which getting it wrong could result in someone dying, jobs are best learnt by doing them. No-one needs a degree in golf course management or, whisper it, media studies.
It would be a grey and dreary world if all education had to be vocational and linked to a specific job.
I think all degrees can be linked to some kind of job though without it being soul-destroying. Even if it's jobs like comedian, novelist or artist.
Study for it's own sake to increase the sum of human knowledge is a good and worthwhile thing.
Ancient Norse and yes media studies all have their place. But studying them should be for engaged scholars who are both capable and commited to study. Or should be an addition to a meaningful career.
Uni as a place to arse about for 3 years is an utter waste.
The last Labour government lessened the stock of a degree massively by opening it to all.
Too many universities.
Too many people going to uni.
Devaluing the degree.
Costing a fortune in grants.
Degrees shouldn't be the standard. Why not just extend bloody secondary school to last until you're 21? It shouldn't be the case that kids feel that they HAVE to get a degree or they're an educational lepper.
It should still be subsidised via grants for those students who show excellence, but cannot afford to pay for it.