"There's been precious little on the box these last few years that has got my wife and me shredding big fat tears of laughter; but The Trip never fails to oblige."
Brian Viner, The Independent
The Trip - Series 1 Page 23
Quote: Marc P @ November 30 2010, 12:59 PM GMTBrian Viner, The Independent
He went to an Ivy League school too.
Quote: JPM1 @ November 30 2010, 12:46 PM GMTIf we made a half hour of Coogan and Brydon sitting at a table throwing poop at each other, wold that be ok with you
The use of poop in the arts is long-established.
"ninety cans of /../Artist's Shit/../ were first exhibited in the Galleria Pescetto (Albisola Marina) on 12 August 1961. "
Quote: Nat Wicks @ November 30 2010, 12:50 PM GMTBut you're arguing against subjectivity with more subjectivity! Your arguments are consistently flawed.
Hi Nat,
Ouch!
I hope you're staying warm in Newcastle. Sure is a fine day to hibernate and watch some TV!
I'm going to need some clarification on both those points.
First, when did I argue against subjectivity? And when did I employ more subjectivity to support said argument? Did I argue against the existence of subjectivity? The use of subjectivity? The application of subjective thinking in response to The Trip? Or that the act of writing or appreciating comedy is subjective?
I don't think I did, but I'd like to hear more.
Second, and this is a great example of what frustrates me about these discussions, you can't just say "your arguments are flawed" (or The Trip is well-written) without supporting that argument. I think I've mentioned before that I believe high quality rhetoric is what separates us from lower species.
A real argument requires supporting information and a clear appeal to the listener's pathos, logos, or ethos... which one are you appealing to here.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure I even made a clear argument in my first post today... sorry about that, that was just lazy of me...
Quote: JPM1 @ November 30 2010, 1:30 PM GMT. I think I've mentioned before that I believe high quality rhetoric is what separates us from lower species.
Actually I think you said soap writers. 
Quote: Marc P @ November 30 2010, 1:34 PM GMTActually I think you said soap writers.
I know but a joke is never as funny the second time around.
Now there's a lesson I wish The Trip would learn!
Quote: JPM1 @ November 30 2010, 1:30 PM GMTA real argument
Why must we argue? Think of the children! 
The children must learn.....
not to write like The Trip!
:-O
Quote: JPM1 @ November 30 2010, 1:30 PM GMTFirst, when did I argue against subjectivity? And when did I employ more subjectivity to support said argument?
The majority of the people in this thread enjoy the show, and have justified their SUBJECTIVE opinions several times. You are challenging those views with your OWN subjective opinions.
You are justifying your feelings on the issue as little as anyone else is, yet you seem to be much happier to write off other peoples' SUBJECTIVE feelings on the assumption that they're not based on as high standards as yours are?
I'm going to stop talking to you now.
In fact, I might give up on this thread, as the fun has been well and truly sucked out of it. Plus I'm generally not a fan of condescension, whether it be presented as high rhetoric or not.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ November 30 2010, 1:45 PM GMTThe majority of the people in this thread enjoy the show, and have justified their SUBJECTIVE opinions several times. You are challenging those views with your OWN subjective opinions.
You are justifying your feelings on the issue as little as anyone else is, yet you seem to be much happier to write off other peoples' SUBJECTIVE feelings on the assumption that they're not based on as high standards as yours are?
I'm going to stop talking to you now.
In fact, I might give up on this thread, as the fun has been well and truly sucked out of it. Plus I'm generally not a fan of condescension, whether it be presented as high rhetoric or not.
Nat, I am sincerely saddened to hear that you feel that A.) I have condescended to you and B.) that the fun has been sucked out of this thread.
In my defence I'd like to point out that I just made two jokes in a row.
We can argue whether or not they were good jokes - unless you think it was my jokes specifically that sucked the fun out of the thread. A point which I would give you. Touche.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a post in which I write off some-one's opinion. I have challenged people to clarify what they like about the show and to be specific about why they think it's well-written.
Also, I feel confident that I have supported my arguments more thoroughly than most - aside from one lengthy post form you, actually. Which I thought was one of the stronger arguments presented here.
Have I assumed that other's opinions are based on lower standards? Or, have I actually asked for further clarification most times when I felt an argument was put forth which clearly lacked supporting information?
Clearly we approach the discussion differently. If you're happy with a conversation where people say "It's well-written" without saying what that means or backing it up, that's fine. Ignore me and I'll talk to the people who are interested in another way of approaching it.
And lastly, I'm sorry that you feel condescended to. That was never my intention. I had hoped for a rigourous critical debate about the writing/ wrighting of The Trip. Obviously we wanted different things out of this and I'm sorry you feel compelled to walk away.
But just remember this one thing, Nat. The Trip has been long and difficult but I will never forget you. Ever....
*cue the music... "all by myself.... don't want to be....all by myself...."
I think maybe I'm reading more about you as a person from your posts than I should be. That's my fault, not yours.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ November 30 2010, 1:45 PM GMTIn fact, I might give up on this thread,
Don't.
Just certain aspects of it.
oh - me as a person - forget about it!
ignore me - just pay attention to my argument.
Oh my God, my worst fear has come true... I'm one of those people who walks into a room and brings all conversation to a halt.
Anyone in London want to find a pub where we can watch the last episode?
You are deconstructing it from the 'classical paradigm' which presumably you have been taught is the foundation of all good narrative. But there is room for massive variation in any art form. Picasso could paint like the old masters but he did other 'stuff' too. It's the nature of the beast. I like a strong, beautifully constructed narrative in a sitcom too. David Renwick. But I like stuff that goes off piste sometimes too.