First Among Equals Page 2

Quote: Ming the Mirthless @ October 14 2010, 8:50 AM BST

The above sketch is, in my impartial-as-possible view, very good and very funny.

At a local level it satirises and parodies the Skit Comp but at a global level is it any less applicable to the Eurovision Song Contest?

The fact is it applies to all competitions in which the overall standard is much of a muchness and in which contestants vote openly for each other thus allowing and encouraging unconscious partiality, mutual back-scratching and downright corruption.

Some of the sketches in the Skit Comp are good just as some Eurovision songs are good. In writing the sketch, I was less concerned about the quality of the entrants than about the charade that is the voting.

And let's remember the Skit Comp is a collective effort: this sketch doesn't rip into any individual. I mean, that would be a terrible thing to do, wouldn't it?

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The nice thing about the skit comp is that people vote only for those sketches they like; their views on the other sketches they keep to themselves; I recall a competition on another forum in which both Ming and I used to post. There you were required to comment on all the sketches and that did become rather personal. I see this much less in the skit comp on here; and not much evidence of bias resulting from relationships established elsewhere on the forum. Many of those on the leader board seldom frequent the forum other than to participate in the skit comp. Some posters do regularly vote for one another, but that is to be expected if they share a sense of humour, and there is a countervailing tendency to spread the love, as far as conscience allows.

Anyway the voting is just a bit of light-hearted fun that no-one takes very seriously. So lets not get hung up on it. The skit comp is there as a spur to write something; anyone who participates is a winner if it prompts them to write something they would not have written otherwise.

Ming, to be clear, I wasn't thinking about variable quality of submission which is pretty much a given in any creative field. The mean spiritedness I was referring to was about the implication that votes are all either reciprocal or about personality. I demur from Timbo's position that there is no bias in the system as I think that would be unrealistic but (as a non-combatant)I'd say that the skit comp is pretty malice free and light-hearted -which means I don't see the point in lampooning it. Whilst the geo-political machinations at Eurovision obviously make my blood boil for our plucky disadvantaged British entrants I'm not sure I see this as an effective satire of that either.

When the judges know who's written which entry and the entrants know how every judge has voted, there is no chance of impartial voting.

As human beings, we simply do not have the power to switch off our personal feelings when we vote in such circumstances.

And the situation becomes even less even-handed when, before voting, a judge can see how other judges have voted.

The Skit Comp itself is a harmless bit of fun and long may it continue but its voting system is well worthy of satire and even more worthy are the people who can't or won't see its failings.

You are never going to get complete objectivity, but I just can't imagine anyone caring enough to vote other than honestly. Certainly not because someone had voted for them; that would just be childish.

Quote: Timbo @ October 14 2010, 4:29 PM BST

I just can't imagine anyone caring enough to vote other than honestly. Certainly not because someone had voted for them; that would just be childish.

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Au contraire, Tim. It's typical of adults too - even at the highest levels of business and politics.

Ming, Timbo didn't say this behaviour was restricted to children. He said it was childish. He's right.

Quote: Badge @ October 14 2010, 11:43 PM BST

Ming, Timbo didn't say this behaviour was restricted to children.

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Correct. I never suggested he did say that

Quote: Badge @ October 14 2010, 11:43 PM BST

He said it was childish.

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Correct. I understood him to mean by that that the behaviour was 'typical of children' and pointed out it was typical of adults too.

Quote: Badge @ October 14 2010, 11:43 PM BST

He's right.

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Correct. And so am I.

Quote: Ming the Mirthless @ October 14 2010, 11:52 PM BST

Correct. I never suggested he did say that

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Then my understanding of au contraire is different. I defer to yous.

I see your semantic point by the way. Maybe you should phrase everything you ever say in a way that can never be misconstrued by anyone in the future? Worth a try?

Quote: Badge @ October 15 2010, 12:01 AM BST

Then my understanding of au contraire is different. I defer to yous.

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In order to be childish, a behaviour must not only be typical of children it must also be atypical of adults.

Accordingly, in describing the behaviour as childish, Timbo was suggesting the behaviour is atypical of adults.

I said 'Au contraire, Tim. It's typical of adults . . .' and I believe that use of 'au contraire' to be in accordance with your understanding of its meaning as well as my own.

Quote: Badge @ October 15 2010, 12:01 AM BST

Maybe you should phrase everything you ever say in a way that can never be misconstrued by anyone in the future?

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That's a good idea but there are limits to how far it is possible to 'dumb down' my communications.

As a relative newbie on this site I quite enjoy the skit comp. Gives me a topic to aim at and it seems harmless enough.

Unless the forum natively supports some form of anonymous posting/voting system, or we want to put an onerous system in place where we all PM Michael and he controls everything, I'm not sure there's an alternative is there?

I quite like the sketch as it stands, didn't really see it as a dig at the skit comp at first, just thought it was a gently weird, nice little sketch.

As for the whole comp/vote subject, I've never had any problems with it.
I haven't entered for a while, but I did when I first joined and always found it most enjoyable whether I won or not. I actually found it a welcoming part of what is a welcoming site.

Quote: Ishy @ October 15 2010, 10:24 AM BST

As a relative newbie on this site I quite enjoy the skit comp. Gives me a topic to aim at and it seems harmless enough.

Unless the forum natively supports some form of anonymous posting/voting system, or we want to put an onerous system in place where we all PM Michael and he controls everything, I'm not sure there's an alternative is there?

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The Skit Comp is by no means one of the world's great evils but its 'non-anonymous' judging system is less than helpful to writers as (whether one believes it or not) people are to a very significant extent voting for people rather than for sketches.

The 'evil' of that is not so much that it produces unfair results but rather that it can give popular people a wholly false impression of their ability to write comedy.

I am currently eleventh on the leader board; so by your reckonng I am perhaps less talented than I had thought, but on the bright side considerably more popular.

There might be some unintentional bias, but the distortion in the voting is nothing like as twisted as your perception. You seem to have a problem with the forum in general and the skit comp in particular; you are in a minority. As scratchyr and Ishy have said most people find the site welcoming, and the skit comp fun. If a clique includes everyone but you then it is not really clique, is it?

And as for your supposed 'evil', in any case what is wrong with a bit of encouragement? Positive feedback encourages people to write more, and the more you practice the better you become.

Besides there is not much point in anonymity; apart from it being a balls-breaking pain in the arse, most of the regulars could pick one another's sketches out of an identity parade anyway.

I sense the onset of some unpleasant postings.

I shall accordingly contribute no more to this thread.