The Big Society Page 3
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 3:30 PM BSTSo where does it end? I want to prevent terrorism so I hang out at my local mosque with an instamatic? I want good roads I get up and tarmacadam them myself? Fair taxes should equal fair services.
I was referring to services people want to use. "Preventing terrorism" is not a service people want to use. I say that Road Tax can pay for the roads (for a change). "Fair taxes should equal fair services". That's Utopia you're talking about. There is no Utopia.
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 3:30 PM BSTIf I had schools I might want a skilled neutral professional not a bunch of ignorant nimbys. But why stop there why don't you do the missus's open hearted surgery? In the big society there's no need for namby pamby knowledge and shite.
I believe that teachers are adequate mostly in terms of their accademic capabilities. It is the way they are Directed and Managed that is the problem. Parents could help significantly with that. The rest of your points are facile (I'm sure you're big enough to agree with that!)
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 3:30 PM BSTYeh right the money would wind up back in your pocket? Bollocks. Hello tole roads, private policing, private pools, endless school top ups. Not to forget private health care. And a big hello to 3 jobs.
Toll roads are a great idea. You want to drive? Then pay. Private policing may well be the way forward - somebody has got to do it. Private pools - good idea! Endless school top ups? Well, if you don't want to pay, don't have kids. Private Healthcare - got to come, I feel. Hello to three jobs? Not really, I don't need most of this stuff, neither do a lot of people. Let those who need the services pay for them. If they can't pay then they can apply for Government support (APPLY, not get it automatically).
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 3:30 PM BSTI look forward to government shrinking and people realising just how much it did for them.
I look forward to people getting off their fat, lazy arses and doing things for themselves. They will have a more fulfilling life instead of sitting in front of the f**king TV all night!
I think when they mentioned it on the news a day or so ago it's the first I'd heard about it.
Frankie rather than anally pick apart your arguments, there's one big response for me.
In the 1940s and 1950s with the end of Empire and the destruction of the second world war. Great politicians from across the spectrum in the UK came together to imagine a better way of being, a better world.
From which grew universal education ,health and welfare.
No person should die from a treatable illness, no person should starve or be impoverished by lack of employment.
The idea that a smooth ungent like Cameron is going to throw much of that in the bin. Because are shitting them selves on not buying a new car this year or going on holiday twice makes me sick.
When did we get so damned defeated?
And there are millions of volunteers, govenors, unpaid carers in this country. Largely silently making all our lives better and our country run.
That this unthinking, unplanning, unworthy government should suggest they do more. Is a gross insult to us all.
And taxation is the fairest most equitable way of paying for essential services.
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 4:47 PM BSTCut but cut with force and a tin ear to criticism.
Sootyj's number 1 areas for cutting.
Means test all benefits; including winter fuel allowance and DLA.
Nice try, Soot ...but no cigar!
That is putting the cart before the horse.
Instead take the pressure off the Government (taxpayer) by reducing ALL benefits immediately by 25%. Easy to manage. Put the pressure where it belongs - on the claimants. If they feel hard done by then they can appeal. THEN they will be Means Tested and their benefits increased (or decreased further..) depending on the outcome. QED.
If people want services for free and money for no work then they need to start to realise that it is NOT theirs by right and is NOT going to be automatically granted.
It's been madness, it's been abused, it's got to start being sensible again.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ July 20 2010, 10:57 PM BSTIt's been madness, it's been abused, it's got to start being sensible again.
Come on - you be sensible. This is Britain we're talking about.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ July 20 2010, 9:52 PM BSTI was referring to services people want to use. "Preventing terrorism" is not a service people want to use. I say that Road Tax can pay for the roads (for a change). "Fair taxes should equal fair services". That's Utopia you're talking about. There is no Utopia.
I believe that teachers are adequate mostly in terms of their accademic capabilities. It is the way they are Directed and Managed that is the problem. Parents could help significantly with that. The rest of your points are facile (I'm sure you're big enough to agree with that!)
Toll roads are a great idea. You want to drive? Then pay. Private policing may well be the way forward - somebody has got to do it. Private pools - good idea! Endless school top ups? Well, if you don't want to pay, don't have kids. Private Healthcare - got to come, I feel. Hello to three jobs? Not really, I don't need most of this stuff, neither do a lot of people. Let those who need the services pay for them. If they can't pay then they can apply for Government support (APPLY, not get it automatically).
I look forward to people getting off their fat, lazy arses and doing things for themselves. They will have a more fulfilling life instead of sitting in front of the f**king TV all night!
A bigger load of utter bollocks I haven't clapped my reading glasses on in years.
I won't dissect either but just for one, Road Tax to be spent on roads?
So the Value Added Tax I pay goes towards . . erm, added value?
The Income Tax I pay goes to improving my income?
By extension, I don't pay a Defence Tax so where does that funding come from?
Toss !
Quote: Frankie Rage @ July 20 2010, 10:57 PM BSTInstead take the pressure off the Government (taxpayer) by reducing ALL benefits immediately by 25%. Easy to manage. Put the pressure where it belongs - on the claimants. If they feel hard done by then they can appeal. THEN they will be Means Tested and their benefits increased (or decreased further..) depending on the outcome. QED.
If you've ever worked with the beneifts system you'll see there are billions waiting to go. Get rid of all Newlabs idiot bribing people with their own money initiatives and you'd shave a fortune.
And appeals are the mother of all money wasters.
I thought this was a disaster in waiting when they mentioned it in the campaign and it looks like a bigger disaster now.
P.S. Frankie there is no such thing as road tax. The only transport charges which reserve any operational excess for transport use are parking charges and congestion charging schemes (in London and Durham).
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 10:12 PM BSTNo person should die from a treatable illness, no person should starve or be impoverished by lack of employment.
That's fine but it's Utopia. We can't afford Utopia, it's all got out of hand. Just about ANY illness can be treated now, science has moved on further than those Great Politicians that you mention could ever have dreamt of. We can't afford it. It needs to be reigned back in, big time.
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 10:12 PM BSTThe idea that a smooth ungent like Cameron is going to throw much of that in the bin. Because are shitting them selves on not buying a new car this year or going on holiday twice makes me sick.When did we get so damned defeated?
I think that's just a lot of belly aching on your part. We are not defeated but we need to "get real", that's all. Forget Utopia, that would be a good start. Let's look at what we can afford and then that's what we can pay for.
Quote: sootyj @ July 20 2010, 10:12 PM BSTAnd there are millions of volunteers, govenors, unpaid carers in this country. Largely silently making all our lives better and our country run. That this unthinking, unplanning, unworthy government should suggest they do more. Is a gross insult to us all. And taxation is the fairest most equitable way of paying for essential services.
There are a lot of good people doing good things. It is not them that need to do more but all those lazy bastards sat on their fat arses who aren't volunteering, who aren't contributing, who aren't making all our lives better. Taxation needs to be made fairer and what is "essential" needs a complete rethink.
Quote: Badge @ July 20 2010, 11:19 PM BSTP.S. Frankie there is no such thing as road tax. The only transport charges which reserve any operational excess for transport use are parking charges and congestion charging schemes (in London and Durham).
No Road Tax? Tell that to every motorist who has to pay Road Tax before they can drive their car!
A lot of people haven't got time to volunteer or run their local school. Although I will personally do my bit for the Big Society and coach local 17 year old girls in netball.
Quote: Oldrocker @ July 20 2010, 11:12 PM BSTA bigger load of utter bollocks I haven't clapped my reading glasses on in years.
I won't dissect either but just for one, Road Tax to be spent on roads?
So the Value Added Tax I pay goes towards . . erm, added value?
The Income Tax I pay goes to improving my income?
By extension, I don't pay a Defence Tax so where does that funding come from?
Toss !
Sorry, your argument is facile.
Value Added Tax can obviously be used for general purposes. Income Tax the same. Defence can be paid for out of that general taxation.
Road Tax could be used for the roads. Motorists pays Road Tax so why shouldn't it be used to pay for the roads they drive on?
Quote: Frankie Rage @ July 20 2010, 11:24 PM BSTNo Road Tax? Tell that to every motorist who has to pay Road Tax before they can drive their car!
You're forgetting those arseholes who don't pay road tax and therefore aren't insured and probably have never got a proper license.
Quote: chipolata @ July 20 2010, 11:28 PM BSTA lot of people haven't got time to volunteer or run their local school.
Many of them would have time if they turned the telly off and joined the real World!
Quote: chipolata @ July 20 2010, 11:28 PM BSTAlthough I will personally do my bit for the Big Society and coach local 17 year old girls in netball.
The local 17 year old girls would clearly benefit from your involvement.
Motorists pay vehicle excise duty, Frankie. It might appear to be semantics, but it does mean that the money raised goes into the general fund rather than to be spent on roads.
If you want motorists to pay for the true costs imposed by their activity then the price might be a bit high for most drivers (or politicians) to accept.