Quote: Frankie Rage @ July 19 2010, 12:46 PM GMTWomen can be very funny indeed.
Some men can very unfunny indeed..
Female comedians Page 14
Clearly Matt Lucas and David Walliams think women are funny - Come Fly With Me parodies women over and over again - wow women are DUMB and how we all laugh at how dumb and crass they (we) are... 
Ladies - that's the tone we need to set on stage! Arrogant, dumb, thieving, backstabbing lowgrade moaners! Men love that and other women do tooooooo 
There's a difference between being funny and being a comedian though, isn't there? There's also a difference between being a funny comedian, and being a successful comedian.
I think the culture of comedy puts a lot of women off. If you see a group of men out socially, they'll basically just insult each other mercilessly. In a world where if you're bad, you're going to be insulted mercilessly, they're a little better prepared.
I think comedy is a pretty rare skill. Singing and acting ability is far more common, so the attractive women are more likely to be successful. There's this assumption that women in comedy are somehow uglier than regular women but they're not. They're just a more accurate representation of women in society generally. Pick 10 women at random in a supermarket, they're not going to be as aesthetically pleasing as 10 random female singers. It's because of the rarity of the skill, that it's one of the very, VERY few areas for women where talent is a bigger factor in success than looks.
I don't think it's that male comedians are more universal, and that female comedians only appeal to other women. Female audiences are just able to gloss over the jokes that are male orientated, mainly because we're used to it.
If I go to see a male comedian, and 2% of the jokes are about wanking or girlfriends, I'll probably just not laugh as much at those bits, and come out making a judgement of the overall performance. If a man sees a female comedian, and 2% of her material is about PMT or boyfriends, he's more likely to come away saying 'typical woman comedian, only talking about periods.'
What you expect to think, massively affects what you do think. Very often, as soon as a woman gets on stage the audience are ready to hate it, and are actively looking out for things to criticise her for.
*loves JoLaw*
She speaks the sense.
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 10:42 PM GMTThere's a difference between being funny and being a comedian though, isn't there? There's also a difference between being a funny comedian, and being a successful comedian.
I think the culture of comedy puts a lot of women off. If you see a group of men out socially, they'll basically just insult each other mercilessly. In a world where if you're bad, you're going to be insulted mercilessly, they're a little better prepared.
I think comedy is a pretty rare skill. Singing and acting ability is far more common, so the attractive women are more likely to be successful. There's this assumption that women in comedy are somehow uglier than regular women but they're not. They're just a more accurate representation of women in society generally. Pick 10 women at random in a supermarket, they're not going to be as aesthetically pleasing as 10 random female singers. It's because of the rarity of the skill, that it's one of the very, VERY few areas for women where talent is a bigger factor in success than looks.
I don't think it's that male comedians are more universal, and that female comedians only appeal to other women. Female audiences are just able to gloss over the jokes that are male orientated, mainly because we're used to it.
If I go to see a male comedian, and 2% of the jokes are about wanking or girlfriends, I'll probably just not laugh as much at those bits, and come out making a judgement of the overall performance. If a man sees a female comedian, and 2% of her material is about PMT or boyfriends, he's more likely to come away saying 'typical woman comedian, only talking about periods.'
What you expect to think, massively affects what you do think. Very often, as soon as a woman gets on stage the audience are ready to hate it, and are actively looking out for things to criticise her for.
I agree.
How much of a coincidence is it that the majority of comedians, male or female, aren't above average in the looks department? Beautiful people don't have to come up with cutting remarks and witty put-downs, because pretty people have easier lives.
I'm struggling to think of a male comedian that is really fit, and the closest I can get is Russell Brand, not everyone's cup of tea, but he takes more pride in his appearance than most.
Quote: zooo @ January 2 2011, 11:00 PM GMT*loves JoLaw*
She speaks the sense.
I'm gonna take a screen shot of that and send it to my Mum 
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 10:42 PM GMTI think the culture of comedy puts a lot of women off. If you see a group of men out socially, they'll basically just insult each other mercilessly. In a world where if you're bad, you're going to be insulted mercilessly, they're a little better prepared.
Well that's just an unsupportable generalisation.
You may percieve because you ignore what other things men may be seeing.
Switching one set of assumptions for an equally felactious one is unhelpful.
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 10:42 PM GMTI think comedy is a pretty rare skill. Singing and acting ability is far more common, so the attractive women are more likely to be successful.
And how many butt ugly male pop stars? You give me a Meat Loaf and I'll raise you a Mama Cass.
Again this is just generalising, it doesn't help.
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 10:42 PM GMTThere's this assumption that women in comedy are somehow uglier than regular women but they're not. They're just a more accurate representation of women in society generally.
This is silly.
Sandra Bernhart, Sarah Silverman, Jennifer Saunders etc etc.
Some comediennes are ugly some are attractive. Just like people really.
Personally I think Miranda Hart is a most striking looking woman
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 10:42 PM GMTIf I go to see a male comedian, and 2% of the jokes are about wanking or girlfriends, I'll probably just not laugh as much at those bits, and come out making a judgement of the overall performance. If a man sees a female comedian, and 2% of her material is about PMT or boyfriends, he's more likely to come away saying 'typical woman comedian, only talking about periods.'
C'mon wanking is funny.
Besides male comedians are often derided for being laddish or crude. Newman and Baddiel are an excelent case in point.
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 10:42 PM GMTWhat you expect to think, massively affects what you do think. Very often, as soon as a woman gets on stage the audience are ready to hate it, and are actively looking out for things to criticise her for.
Yes I do indeed go to see female comedians full hoping to hate them.
A great evening of hating what I'm seeing can't be beaten.
Quote: sootyj @ January 2 2011, 11:30 PM GMTPersonally I think Miranda Hart is a most striking looking woman
Yeah, but would you though?
Quote: JoLaw @ January 2 2011, 11:13 PM GMTI'm gonna take a screen shot of that and send it to my Mum
Quote: AngieBaby @ January 2 2011, 11:32 PM GMTYeah, but would you though?
Quite possibly, but I suspect she's outta my league.
Quote: sootyj @ January 2 2011, 11:22 PM GMTWell that's just an unsupportable generalisation.
You may percieve because you ignore what other things men may be seeing.
Switching one set of assumptions for an equally felactious one is unhelpful.
It's a generalisation based on my experience, unless all the men I know are atypical, I think it counts for a lot. I'm not saying that's the only way they ever communicate and they're incapable of anything else, but they certainly tend to have more of that sort of banter.
My relationships with my male friends are completely different to my relationships with female friends. I've often gone out being the only girl in a group of men, or had a single male friend come out with a group of girls. The dynamics are noticably different.
Quote: sootyj @ January 2 2011, 11:22 PM GMTAnd how many butt ugly male pop stars? You give me a Meat Loaf and I'll raise you a Mama Cass.
No, it's true of men too, although I think to a lesser extent. Look at the difference in the public reaction to Susan Boyle vs Paul Potts. Both unattractive people who could sing, but we were only shocked at discovering a woman who had vocal talent.
I think a cross section of male comedians are less conventionally attractive than a cross section of male pop stars. It's just never considered an issue for male comedians.
Oh you've edited. Give me a minute to catch up!
Quote: sootyj @ January 2 2011, 11:30 PM GMTWell
This is silly.Sandra Bernhart, Sarah Silverman, Jennifer Saunders etc etc.
Some comediennes are ugly some are attractive. Just like people really.
That was my point! I was referring to attitudes such as this:
Quote: Ming the Mirthless @ October 5 2010, 8:54 AM GMTAt the present time, almost everybody and his or her dog is trying to make a career in stand-up comedy but if we ignore this recent invasion and look back through the history of stand-up comedy, how many attractive female comedians do we see?
I'm not talking about actresses who performed comedic roles: I'm talking about women who stood at a microphone and told jokes.
The answer is 'Few, if any'.
Now, okay, we can debate all day about what 'attractive' means but, unless we're being deliberately mischievous, we all know what it means and the truth is that, historically, good-looking women have tended to be absent from stand-up comedy.
Why is that?
When would you ever hear that question asked of male comedians?
Quote: sootyj @ January 2 2011, 11:30 PM GMTC'mon wanking is funny.
So is PMT. In a 'if I didn't laugh I'd cry...or stab the nearest man' kind of way.
Quote: sootyj @ January 2 2011, 11:30 PM GMTYes I do indeed go to see female comedians full hoping to hate them.
A great evening of hating what I'm seeing can't be beaten.
Of course you don't, you're not an idiot. The fact that there are still discussions like this going on proves that SOME men still have that opinion.
The first comment I had from a stranger after my first open mic night was a more experienced comedian saying "I don't usually like female comedians but...". He wasn't even able to give me a compliment without admitting his preconception was that he wouldn't like it.
Whenever I go to a mixed comedy night, my personal preferences do mean I make snap judgements. If a comedian goes onto the stage in character, or with a guitar, they're going to have to work a bit harder to win me over because I'm already suspecting that it won't be to my taste. Female comedians experience that a lot.
For obvious reasons, I'm very interested in women's experiences of performing stand up comedy so have read a lot of interviews and articles and blogs, and hostility based on gender, before even speaking a word, is something that a lot of female comedians have encountered. Jo Brand has said that she's watched as a female takes to the stage, and a lot of the audience (men and women alike) have taken that as a cue to head straight for the bar.
Are you stalking me, Jo?! Nice to see you here ! Especially with such good postings!
I almost am stalking you a little bit. You mentioned this forum on another one, so I came and had a sneaky read when I was on the train, and because I'm an irritatingly opinionated bitch, I then had to join. 
Don't worry, I'm too lazy for proper stalking. Not unless you lived opposite me, and to be honest even then it's a trek to the window.
Jo, you make some very interesting points there, several I agree with, but are men really to blame for not liking or not getting female based comedy as much male comedy? I wouldn't say they are, nature has made us different, and we tend to have an instinctive inkling for comedy of our own gender culture, I'd say.
You said yourself you behave differently when with your girl mates than you do with blokes, confirming this natural difference. Why then blame men for not wanting to see women acts as much as men acts?
It's a bit of a shame that it's still a man's world we live in but it has got a LOT more female friendly over the years, it's maybe not quite equal yet, but I see women having some great opportunities in all areas of life now that they didn't used to have. But if some men still don't want to laugh at your act, I am afraid you can't make them, that is just life.
Surely the thing to do is to shape your comedy for a female centred audience, as all the best known female comedians have done? I thought all women naturally did this anyway, so maybe what's bothering you is that there aren't enough female fans out there going to see stand up? I'm no expert on stand up btw, it's just not my cuppa, maybe there are a lot of women going to stand up. If so, surely you should target them?