Quote: Matthew Stott @ 6th May 2014, 9:45 PM BSTA lot of people, including lots of women no doubt, do seem to be confused about what feminism actually means. Perhaps if it didn't have 'fem' at the start people wouldn't get so confused.
Partly due to people constantly equating it to 'man hating lesbians'. 
Quote: Jennie @ 6th May 2014, 9:41 PM BSTshe can make a choice to live a life which is not discriminatory and which works within the principles of social, cultural, political and economic equality and independence.
The problem arises when a situation is positively discriminatory - being bought drinks, taken out for dinner, having doors held open, being given a seat on public transport, etc.
Not only are these sexist practices allowed to exist, they're actively encouraged, nay expected. But such is the way of the world, if you get positive discrimination based on your gender, then you can also expect negative discrimination based on your gender.
I don't think many women would like 'true' equality.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 9:53 PM BSTYou can go to Google and type in 'Wonder Woman Feminism' and see all of the imaginary people I have obviously made up to create a false argument. It might seem hard to believe, but there are people out there, beyond the realm of the BCG who have opinions that I rally against.
Here is quite an in depth article about Wonder Woman's change of costume in the comic books, where she was 'de-sexualised'. http://benlundy.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/more-on-wonder-woman-costume-feminism.html
I couldn't read it all - light font on a black background make my eyes feel sick - but is that more about a new comic book than a film?
*edit* (Oh sorry, just saw that you said as much - ignore me.)
Anyway as I said earlier, there are pockets of people who will complain about every new superhero film. I don't see that some feminists who don't like her costume stopped a movie from happening.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 9:58 PM BSTI don't think many women would like 'true' equality.
Exhibit 1: Why feminism still needs to exist in the 21st century.
Daddy isn't going to let us go on the swings, because he knows that we are far happier in the sandpit.
Quote: Jennie @ 6th May 2014, 9:52 PM BSTFeminism is just about equality. Maybe it should just be peopleism.
As mentioned previously in these 'discussions', we have equal rights under the law. Feminism is an ideology, a belief. And lately, it's just a meaningless, catch all phrase. A woman could marry a rich guy, quit her job, sit at home all day raising babies and then jump on Mumsnet and call herself a feminist. It's like wearing a leather jacket, eating in McDonalds and telling everyone you meet how much you love animals. It's a pointless bit of social labelling designed to show that you 'belong'.
Quote: zooo @ 6th May 2014, 10:00 PM BSTI couldn't read it all - light font on a black background make my eyes feel sick - but is that more about a new comic book than a film?
*edit* (Oh sorry, just saw that you said as much - ignore me.)Anyway as I said earlier, there are pockets of people who will complain about every new superhero film. I don't see that some feminists who don't like her costume stopped a movie from happening.
Unfortunately for RCP, a fair number of feminists see WW as a feminist icon. It must be very confusing for him, what with all these feminists thinking different things and stuff.
Of course, it would be churlish of me to point out that the whole point of his first post was that feminists are singlehandedly preventing a WW movie being made.
The evidence for that proposition has been a little less forthcoming.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 10:04 PM BST'discussions',
Nice.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 10:04 PM BSTA woman could marry a rich guy, quit her job, sit at home all day raising babies and then jump on Mumsnet and call herself a feminist.
Sounds good to me. None of that is anti-feminist.
Quote: Jennie @ 6th May 2014, 10:05 PM BSTThe evidence for that proposition has been a little less forthcoming.
I love it when you talk barrister...
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 10:04 PM BST'discussions',
Aww, don't do yourself down. You have a role to play too.
Quote: zooo @ 6th May 2014, 10:08 PM BSTI love it when you talk barrister...
Quote: zooo @ 6th May 2014, 10:00 PM BSTAnyway as I said earlier, there are pockets of people who will complain about every new superhero film. I don't see that some feminists who don't like her costume stopped a movie from happening.
The number one demographic for box office success is teenage boys, they buy more cinema tickets than any other group. For the film to be a success, it would have to appeal to them primarily. Sure Twilight made a lot of money, but it was chump change compared to Avengers Assemble.
The problem with marketing Wonder Woman is that you fall between two stools - do you make her sexy to appeal to the boys or do you frump her up to appease the female audience members. The costume designer for Batman vs Superman is already feeling the weight of expectation because if he gets her look 'wrong', then it could stop any kind of Wonder Woman spin off movie.
This is what her cameo is, a kind of focus group marketing exercise, that will attempt to please both male and female movie goers. It will fail of course.
Quote: zooo @ 6th May 2014, 10:08 PM BSTI love it when you talk barrister...
sooty, get the bromide, you're closer than I am! . . .
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 10:12 PM BSTThe number one demographic for box office success is teenage boys, they buy more cinema tickets than any other group. For the film to be a success, it would have to appeal to them primarily. Sure Twilight made a lot of money, but it was chump change compared to Avengers Assemble.
The problem with marketing Wonder Woman is that you fall between two stools - do you make her sexy to appeal to the boys or do you frump her up to appease the female audience members. The costume designer for Batman vs Superman is already feeling the weight of expectation because if he gets her look 'wrong', then it could stop any kind of Wonder Woman spin off movie.
This is what her cameo is, a kind of focus group marketing exercise, that will attempt to please both male and female movie goers. It will fail of course.
Sexy and frump are not the only two choices. Well, I don't think the three pics I posted on the last page are frumpy. Maybe you do.
It's not about 'frumping' a woman up to 'appease' the female audience. It's about making her cool to excite the female audience.
And, you know, making the film funny and cool and witty and shit.
Quote: Jennie @ 6th May 2014, 10:07 PM BSTSounds good to me. None of that is anti-feminist.
Sacrificing your independence, giving up your career, being a baby factory, carrying out the domestic chores as hubby works - I'm pretty sure those aren't feminist ideals.
Unless feminism has changed to mean just about anything, in which case, it's a meaningless platitude at best.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 6th May 2014, 10:12 PM BSTThe number one demographic for box office success is teenage boys,
Hollywood lives and breathes on the narrative that young men drive the box office. That is just not true. There were 4.2 million 18-24 year old female frequent filmgoers compared to 3.3 million male frequent filmgoers. Now clearly young women are going to the male centric movies because those dominate the theatres, but keep in mind that three out of the top ten grossing films of 2010 (Alice in Wonderland, Twilight Eclipse and Tangled), had a female at the center of the story.
So what do the numbers mean for women and film? Women went to the movie less in 2010 than in 2009 where they bought 55% of the tickets, but they still go in EQUAL amounts to male patrons. Numbers do not lie. Women and men buy tickets in equal amount and women made up 51% of the moviegoers in 2010 compared to 49% of men.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/womenandhollywood/who_goes_to_the_movies_moviegoers_stats_from_2010