Mr Cameron is doing his best to bugger himself
A school's singing competition with Gary Barlow? Just want the country needs!
General Election 2010 Page 35
Quote: Godot Taxis @ April 16 2010, 4:26 PM BSTThe 'all the same' mantra is one of the most dangerous slogans bandied around in political discussions and it's deplorable for a party leader to use a slogan that discourages analysis and thought.
I very much agree with this statement. Clegg's "old politics" spiel is pretty ropey at best (and it seems to be what 90% of his campaign is based on). If we all voted BNP or Green, that'd bring about big change in Parliament; doesn't mean we should.
Quote: Aaron @ April 16 2010, 1:42 AM BSTand what a laugh when they weren't sure what they were meant to be doing as the titles rolled.
Apparently the producer had told them all to stay on the stage at the end but Gordon the sly old dog pulled a fast one!
I thought they all did OK, I didn't think Clegg had won as decisively as the polls showed, but apparently so!
Quote: ShoePie @ April 16 2010, 6:41 PM BSTApparently the producer had told them all to stay on the stage at the end but Gordon the sly old dog pulled a fast one!
Ha, I expected that that's what happened. Gordo's a sly one. What will be really interesting is to see what happens next time! Will they change, or will Gordo remember?
Why has Sky News been given a debate? It's ridiculous. It should have been on ITV or BBC. Or, at the very least, Channel 4 or Channel 5.
Quote: chipolata @ April 16 2010, 7:12 PM BSTWhy has Sky News been given a debate? It's ridiculous. It should have been on ITV or BBC. Or, at the very least, Channel 4 or Channel 5.
I know, seems stupid doesn't it? Not like anyone'll actually watch the thing. I think it's simply because it came down to being media pressure that organised the debates, rather than the leaders; BBC and ITV needed a real big, influential player to team up with.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ April 16 2010, 4:26 PM BSTThe 'all the same' mantra is one of the most dangerous slogans bandied around in political discussions and it's deplorable for a party leader to use a slogan that discourages analysis and thought.
But you really can't get a cigarette paper between Labour and the Tories. In many ways Labour under Brown and Blair have been more extreme in their free market dogma and belief in public choice theory than the Major government, just as pro-business and anti-worker, and far more authoritarian and colonialist. This is the reason the two parties are campaigning on trifles and conspiring to exaggerate differences, rather than putting forward radical proposals or emphasising ideology. Brown is no more a socialist than Cameron, and Cameron no more a capitalist than Brown.
Of the three main parties only the LibDems have been prepared to break ranks from the "we know what's best for you" political consensus, and then only on a few issues and not by very far. But just watch, in the next couple of weeks the other parties will attempt to paint them as irresponsible extremist loonies.
Quote: Aaron @ April 16 2010, 7:15 PM BSTI think it's simply because it came down to being media pressure that organised the debates, rather than the leaders; BBC and ITV needed a real big, influential player to team up with.
So they are debating because Murdoch told them they had to? That sounds about right in terms of who runs the country. At any rate the politicians would not dare cross Murdoch by not giving Sky a piece of the action.
Lib Dems leap 14 points in poll!!! _ if you belive that...
Quote: Timbo @ April 16 2010, 7:35 PM BSTBrown is no more a socialist than Cameron
Oh, I'm really not sure about that. I think he merely recognises that in order to get even close to that one thing he craves above any other - power - he has to have more of a right-lean.
Quote: bigfella @ April 16 2010, 8:14 PM BSTLib Dems leap 14 points in poll!!! _ if you belive that...
Wasn't that conducted immediately after the debate though? What'll be really interesting is to see if they've maintained it through to Sunday, and indeed next Sunday once there's been another (unwatched) debate.
Quote: Timbo @ April 16 2010, 7:35 PM BSTBut you really can't get a cigarette paper between Labour and the Tories. In many ways Labour under Brown and Blair have been more extreme in their free market dogma and belief in public choice theory than the Major government, just as pro-business and anti-worker, and far more authoritarian and colonialist. This is the reason the two parties are campaigning on trifles and conspiring to exaggerate differences, rather than putting forward radical proposals or emphasising ideology. Brown is no more a socialist than Cameron, and Cameron no more a capitalist than Brown.
Of the three main parties only the LibDems have been prepared to break ranks from the "we know what's best for you" political consensus, and then only on a few issues and not by very far. But just watch, in the next couple of weeks the other parties will attempt to paint them as irresponsible extremist loonies.
The Lib Dems/SDP/Liberals have always had the luxury of offering something different because they know they don't have to deliver it.
Britain is a lickspittle, forlock-clutching conservative country, with an monarchy, aristocracy and a establishment elite. No truly socialist party could ever get elected. I vote labour as an exercise in damage-limitation.
I look at it like this: voting Labour is like getting a bucket of piss thrown over you and voting Conservative is like getting a bucket of shit. The Lib Dem bucket could contain Mango sorbet or clown's spunk - we'll never know.
The Lib Dems probably never decided on which bucket to buy.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ April 17 2010, 12:25 AM BSTThe Lib Dems/SDP/Liberals have always had the luxury of offering something different because they know they don't have to deliver it.
I look at it like this: voting Labour is like getting a bucket of piss thrown over you and voting Conservative is like getting a bucket of shit. The Lib Dem bucket could contain Mango sorbet or clown's spunk - we'll never know.
There has never been a better opportunity to find out. If you are content to vote for one lot of lizards to stop the other lot of lizards getting in, then you deserve to be pissed and shat on.
Quote: Timbo @ April 17 2010, 8:52 AM BSTThere has never been a better opportunity to find out. If you are content to vote for one lot of lizards to stop the other lot of lizards getting in, then you deserve to be pissed and shat on.
You're not David Icke? He believes ten foot tall lizards rule the world.
Quote: Timbo @ April 16 2010, 7:35 PM BSTBut you really can't get a cigarette paper between Labour and the Tories. In many ways Labour under Brown and Blair have been more extreme in their free market dogma and belief in public choice theory than the Major government, just as pro-business and anti-worker, and far more authoritarian and colonialist. This is the reason the two parties are campaigning on trifles and conspiring to exaggerate differences, rather than putting forward radical proposals or emphasising ideology. Brown is no more a socialist than Cameron, and Cameron no more a capitalist than Brown.
Of the three main parties only the LibDems have been prepared to break ranks from the "we know what's best for you" political consensus, and then only on a few issues and not by very far. But just watch, in the next couple of weeks the other parties will attempt to paint them as irresponsible extremist loonies.
I have to agree with most of this. However the politics of 'the left' no longer consist socialist economics since the collapse, in abject failure, of communism and the once-admired Swedish state. With the triumph of the free market, economics has been translated into cultural terms and 'the left' are very successful at that. Their project is a bigger state achieved by such means as multiculturalism, environmentalism and the destruction of the family. What is so dismaying is that 'the right' has conceded so much of this ground without a fight.
Quote: chipolata @ April 17 2010, 2:01 PM BSTYou're not David Icke? He believes ten foot tall lizards rule the world.
No, a reference to the great Douglas Adams and this extract from So Long And Thanks For All The FIsh
An extraterrestrial robot and spaceship has just landed on earth. The robot steps out of the spaceship...
"I come in peace," it said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, "take me to your Lizard."
Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this (...)
"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, (,,,,), "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in (...)"