But most of this forum LOVES the family friendly(ish) studio sitcom Miranda...
Big Top critical and forum reaction
Quote: Griff @ December 11 2009, 11:12 AM GMTMicheal Jacob has been reading the BCG again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/writersroom/2009/12/unintended_consequences_can_of.shtml
"As is traditional with virtually every new BBC1 sitcom, Big Top has received a massive critical kicking, both in newspapers and on writers' forums. I can never quite understand the snobbishness of aspiring comedy writers, who tend to unite in loathing any show which is popular with audiences. Two Pints and My Family spring immediately to mind."
Is it snobbish to expect good quality comedy?
It's often said that comedy is subjective but it seems that no one actually believes it.
I'm surprised Micheal Jacob mentions Two Pints and My Family as shows that aspiring comedy writers unite in loathing 'simply because they're popular with audiences'.
Ralf Little has let it be known he regards Two Pints as low-grade comedy, and both Robert Lindsay and Zoe Wanamaker threatened to quit My Family unless the scripts improved.
I doubt any of the above top-class comedy actors disliked their sitcoms simply because the shows were popular with audiences and I doubt Micheal Jacob would accuse them of such snobbishness.
Big Top is packed with jokes but that's its only redeeming feature. In all other respects, it's very poor fare indeed. Perhaps its worst fault is that it looks as if it was filmed on a day when most of the actors didn't want to work. Tony Robinson, Ruth Madoc and John Thomson - all of whom shine brightly in other programmes - look half-awake at best!
When BCG members and newspaper critics say Big Top is rubbish, they're not being snobbish. They mean it.
But Micheal Jacob is right. There is a certain batch of aspiring writers who pour scorn on all sorts of populist stuff on all sorts of forums - and are certainly "snobbish" in a very unhelpful and - these are my opinions - unprofessional style. Children looking enviously in through the sweet shop window who are not allowed inside end up behaving only like children.
Isn't it more productive to ascertain why something may or may not have problems with it - i.e. to look constructively at a show like BIG TOP instead of throwing easy scorn on something that people have worked very hard on?
Also, and this is something I have come to realise myself, just because something doesn't tick everyone's boxes doesn't mean it ticks no-ones. MY FAMILY and TWO PINTS are recommissioned and remade because they get viewers. It's as simple as that. Sometimes people want the finest champagne. Sometimes the same or different people fancy a pint of lager. Or two.
I can only speak for myself when I say that if I don't like a show, it ain't down to snobishness, it's just because I don't like it. Popular BBC 1 shows that I love would include Gavin And Stacey and Outnumbered, both high quality productions. I haven't seen Big Top so can't comment. I'm sure there are wannabe writers out there who review from a snobby point of view, but there's just as many who are giving an honest opinion.
Quote: Ben @ December 11 2009, 11:16 AM GMTBut most of this forum LOVES the family friendly(ish) studio sitcom Miranda...
Yes.
A prime time BBC comedy is always going to get decent ratings but that doesn't necessarily make it good. The problem is that we are so desperate for that killer show that will live in the memory like the classics of the past that we perhaps don't give them the chance to bed-in like we used to.
New TV comedy has largely eaten itself by its easy access and never-ending digital repeats - Little Britain and Two Pints for example are dead I wouldn't care if I never saw them again. At one time I could happily watch both. The issue is is that the old shows didn't have that exposure which is why they have lasted longer. A repeat of the series was a big thing then.
The danger we face is that ALL shows will be killed by the way they are broadcast now. I rarely watch OFAH now for instance because it has had the Gold treatment and I get demoralised by new material in a very quickly if I haven't laughed heartily from the start.
There is an element of snobbiness I think. Some series will get recommissions to the point of madness like My Family and Two Pints because they had the ratings to see it through it's initial development phase. If we decided we didn't like it at the start we are unlikely to go back and we resent that it keeps returning when we are not seeing something else we like.
On the flip side the BBC should perhaps have called time on the Royle Family but they have nothing else to get excited about for Christmas Day. I bet those involved were paid a fortune to ressurect it again.
Digital TV, on-demand services, DVDs, Internet forums etc have all changed us. Before we had to take what were given but now we want instant gratification. We no longer have the patience.
Before we dismiss a show we should give it a series at least and the prod-cos and broadcasters should always plan for two series to give it a chance to find its way. Trouble is, I can't see either happening.
Quote: SlagA @ December 11 2009, 12:07 PM GMTIt's often said that comedy is subjective but it seems that no one actually believes it.
Mr Slag speaks sense.
Another issue is that a great many moaners on forums are coming at from the perspective of untried writers and not the viewers. All telly comedy is produced from the standpoint of the potential audience. Even BIG TOP - which is deliberately trying for a family audience and knows that eight year olds will get its colour and simplicity.
Quote: 2ChristianTypists @ December 11 2009, 12:30 PM GMTBut Micheal Jacob is right. There is a certain batch of wannabee writers who . . .
You misquote him and then build an argument to support what he didn't say.
The subject of his complaint is 'aspiring comedy writers' and not, as you say, 'a certain batch' of same.
If one says 'aspiring comedy writers tend to have criminal records', that's very probably untrue.
If, on the other hand, one says 'a certain batch of wannabe comedy writers have criminal records', that's as true a statement as will ever be made.
Big difference.
Quote: Griff @ December 11 2009, 12:37 PM GMTWell, better children than Grown Ups...
Whilst I completely understand your point here, that is a good example of a snipey dig in itself and underlines what Mr Jacob is alluding to.
Quote: Ming the Mirthless @ December 11 2009, 12:58 PM GMTYou misquote him and then build an argument to support what he didn't say.
The subject of his complaint is 'aspiring comedy writers' and not, as you say, 'a certain batch' of same.
If one says 'aspiring comedy writers tend to have criminal records', that's very probably untrue.
If, on the other hand, one says 'a certain batch of wannabe comedy writers have criminal records', that's as true a statement as will ever be made.
Big difference.
I am not entirely sure where you are going here.
Quote: Ming the Mirthless @ December 11 2009, 12:58 PM GMT'aspiring comedy writers tend to have criminal records'
I have directly quoted Ming here - he wrote it. Ignore the fact that I have cut out the context. 
Quote: 2ChristianTypists @ December 11 2009, 12:30 PM GMTThere is a certain batch of wannabee writers who pour scorn on populist stuff and are certainly "snobbish" in a very unhelpful and unprofessional style.
Leaving the wonderful Mr Jacob aside, isn't the TV world equally snobby to assume that dislike of a show CANNOT be because viewers simply don't like it but because its critics are all snobs? And if it is true that all critics are failed wannabes, why pay heed to their bile and jealousy induced rantings?
No show will gain universal acclaim, so why expect every show will acheive it.
Quote: 2ChristianTypists @ December 11 2009, 12:55 PM GMTAnother issue is that a great many moaners on forums are coming at from the perspective of untried wannabee writers and not the viewers.
I feel you're making quite a few assumptions about said moaners. I'm not sure you're really in a position to make those assumptions.
There's only one way to settle this...