Swearing And Intimidation On Television Page 3

Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 1:54 AM BST

These are highly educated men in the 21st century. Some of them are even minorities themselves, so I can't believe they didn't understand that their act reeked of racism.

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To me and you it reeks of racism, because we live in the UK and the US, but "racism" like this is to a large extent dependent on culture.

There are certain words that are not considered especially racist in the UK, for example, that are considered quite racist in the US, and vice versa.

I'd be interested to hear what our Aussie poster has to say about it.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 8 2009, 1:52 AM BST

It's possible to disagree with the use of swearwords, used for comedic effect, if they're lazily used, but if you're genuinely "offended" by swearing on a blanket basis, you're a FUCKing idiot. And a CUNT.

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I agree. Someone 'National Viewers Association' member on Radio 5 tonight was actually implying that writers deliberately set out to offend people by putting in swear words. While that may be true of the occasional lazy hack, I don't think it's generally true at all.

You put in what's needed. The script I'm just finishing has one swear word in the whole thing - "shit". Whereas one I wrote a few months back has the word "c**t" (spoken by a female character) in the first scene. There's only one other swear word in that script. Could I get away without that "c**t"? Probably. But due to the set-up of the show occurring in the first scene it's dramatically valid to change the tone with that word. It might not be as funny without it.

Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 1:54 AM BST

These are highly educated men in the 21st century. Some of them are even minorities themselves, so I can't believe they didn't understand that their act reeked of racism. Perhaps they assumed that it was funny enough to carry on anyway, but I can't believe they were dumbfounded by the response.

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Perhaps they made the mistake of thinking that what they were doing had acquired an "ironic" status?

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 1:36 AM BST

And fair play for Harry for making a point. (And some of the audience for booing.) On what level could this not have been considered racist and offensive?

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Those members of the audience were actually booing the adjudicator for hitting the gong to stop the performance. Was Little Britain branded racist for its blackface sketch?

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 8 2009, 1:59 AM BST

To me and you it reeks of racism, because we live in the UK and the US, but "racism" like this is to a large extent dependent on culture.

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My point was that your excuse is less valid in the modern world. Surely the men have read newspapers, watched television and otherwise gleaned that blackface is not a harmless stage prop.

We don't have a large Pakistani population in the U.S. (although my best friend as a child was born there) and the word "Paki" is not emblazoned with flashing lights in my brain like the n-word is, but I'm aware of its sensitivity and wouldn't use it on a U.S. comedy show, for example.

Quote: Kenneth @ October 8 2009, 2:05 AM BST

Those members of the audience were actually booing the adjudicator for hitting the gong to stop the performance.

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The Gong Show still lives?!

Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 2:07 AM BST

We don't have a large Pakistani population in the U.S. (although my best friend as a child was born there) and the word "Paki" is not emblazoned with flashing lights in my brain like the n-word is, but I'm aware of its sensitivity and wouldn't use it on a U.S. comedy show, for example.

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And yet Bush Jr used it during a televised press conference whilst trying to defuse a nuclear stand-off between India and Pakistan.

Quote: Kenneth @ October 8 2009, 2:05 AM BST

Was Little Britain branded racist for its blackface sketch?

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You mean Bubbles de Vere's love rival, whatever her name was?

Well, no, but it did cause some debate as to whether it was. I've got mixed feelings about that sketch (but then I've got very mixed feelings about Little Britain as a whole). I think it got away with it because it was such a cartoonish show and sketch already (with the fat suits etc.) and that the joke with the character were nothing to do with skin colour. Personally, I think if it hadn't been such a popular show it would have attracted more criticism.

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 2:11 AM BST

You mean Bubbles de Vere's love rival, whatever her name was?

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I think that one attracted some comment.

There was also this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w59bb83JNyU

Which was, in my rubbish opinion, the best sketch Little Britain ever did. But I don't think anyone noticed Lucas was blacked up.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 8 2009, 2:14 AM BST

There was also this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w59bb83JNyU

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I've never seen that one before. Well, that's obviously not racist.

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 1:53 AM BST

Has it caused a major stir in Oz, Kenneth?

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Er, I'm afraid that after skiting in another thread here that "I don't watch commercial TV except for sport, Family Guy and South Park" I have to admit that I saw the blackface act live on TV last night, having just finished watching a DVD and then channel flicking.

On seeing the guys come out in blackface, I immediately thought, oh dear, that's going to upset a few people; perhaps it's a risky ploy for publicity. The 'Red Faces' segment of the show (where amateur performers come on and get gonged) was all about bad, corny and unfunny acts, mostly by untalented people (the previous performer burped a song). Being of mixed race myself, I just saw the act as a group of guys doing a really poor impression of the Jackson Five. I personally didn't find it offensive, as I think the Jacksons are fair game for lousy parody. I also don't get offended when I watch old episodes of The Goodies and see them in blackface.

But yes, last night's Jackson Jive performance has caused a bit of a stir in Oz. Lots of talkback radio feedback, with comments ranging from "I'm ashamed to be an Australian" to "who cares?". And doubtless it was another quiet day in Iraq.

Quote: Kenneth @ October 8 2009, 2:24 AM BST

Er, I'm afraid that after skiting in another thread here that "I don't watch commercial TV except for sport, Family Guy and South Park" I have to admit that I saw the blackface act live on TV last night, having just finished watching a DVD and then channel flicking.

On seeing the guys come out in blackface, I immediately thought, oh dear, that's going to upset a few people; perhaps it's a risky ploy for publicity. The 'Red Faces' segment of the show (where amateur performers come on and get gonged) was all about bad, corny and unfunny acts, mostly by untalented people (the previous performer burped a song). Being of mixed race myself, I just saw the act as a group of guys doing a really poor impression of the Jackson Five. I personally didn't find it offensive, as I think the Jacksons are fair game for lousy parody. I also don't get offended when I watch old episodes of The Goodies and see them in blackface.

But yes, last night's Jackson Jive performance has caused a bit of a stir in Oz. Lots of talkback radio feedback, with comments ranging from "I'm ashamed to be an Australian" to "who cares?". And doubtless it was another quiet day in Iraq.

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I have a new favourite Australian.

Hi Kenneth.

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 12:29 AM BST

BBC Gets Tough On Swearing And Intimidation

Following the mess that the BBC got itself into over failures in editorial policy (most notably the Andrew Sachs/Ross/Brand affair), the subject of excessive bad language and bad behaviour (on both pre- and post-watershed TV) has reared its head again.

Personally I think the swearing pendulum has swung too far in some areas of TV output, but I think this has mainly been in chat shows and reality shows (Ramsey and BB being obvious culprits). To be fair though, some TV comedy panel shows can be almost as guilty.

TV comedy is always going to have sweary programmes, but I fear it's an area that will be hit disproportionately if the crackdown goes ahead. I don't think that swearing = laughs by any means, but I fear that editorial decisions made on the grounds of "taste and decency" could affect what comedy makes it to screen. Not just the actual words themselves, but the tone and plots of shows.

My opinion is that (as when I was a kid) parents should regulate what their kids watch more closely and decide what is appropriate. I can see technologies such as the BBC iPlayer make this more difficult however.

Any thoughts?

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I think bleeping (post-watershed) swears for a generation weaned on the internet is completely laughable. The BBC surely know this and are only making a song and dance to placate Middle England, I would imagine.

Will this really impact *that* much on comedy writers? Not being one I'm not in a position to comment.

American TV (okay, not HBO) is notoriously draconian - far more so than here - yet this decade Fox produced Arrested Development which was brilliantly creative in this department.

Quote: Kenneth @ October 8 2009, 2:24 AM BST

And doubtless it was another quiet day in Iraq.

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Iraq is mostly quiet these days. I have friends serving over there and they're bored to tears. Afghanistan is where things are really heating up.

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 2:11 AM BST

You mean Bubbles de Vere's love rival, whatever her name was?

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I was referring to the one with the actual mistrels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRwlbI2_pQ

Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 2:33 AM BST

Iraq is mostly quiet these days. I have friends serving over there and they're bored to tears.

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Except for the car bomb that killed seven people and wounded 29 in Fallujah on Tuesday. And the bomb that killed a guy on a minibus in Baghdad yesterday. I hope it does remain safer there.

Quote: Gregor Shamsa @ October 8 2009, 2:28 AM BST

Will this really impact *that* much on comedy writers? Not being one I'm not in a position to comment.

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To be honest, I very much doubt it. It should have more effect on "unscripted" programming, such as reality shows. It would be a problem for comedy if certain themes were deemed "off limits" due to paranoia about what will be allowed. Writers all have to tailor comedy scripts with some consideration to what networks will actually allow to be shown on their channels.

In a way I think comedy has slightly anticipated events in the last few years, especially in sitcom. There are actually less shows now that pepper the script with swearwords, I think. As long as the new guidelines don't become the first step towards really draconian measures then it should be OK. Otherwise we'll end up with some (more) really bland shows.

Quote: Kenneth @ October 8 2009, 2:38 AM BST

I was referring to the one with the actual mistrels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iRwlbI2_pQ

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Now I have seen that one. Reminds me how their one-off sketches were often the strongest.

It's a parody of racist/immigration rhetoric with an absurdist twist. No complaints about that one at all as I recall. (Though it may well have been included in the general debate about whether or not Lucas & Walliams should ever be bringing blacking-up in a modern sketch show. Which was a pretty baseless and silly comment, IMO.)

Quote: Kenneth @ October 8 2009, 2:38 AM BST

Except for the car bomb that killed seven people and wounded 29 in Fallujah on Tuesday. And the bomb that killed a guy on a minibus in Baghdad yesterday.

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Foreign troops have been removed to remote bases outside of the cities. There's been one death due to hostile fire among coalition troops in the last month. The violence is Iraqi-upon-Iraqi, much as it has been since the beginning of the conflict. Hopefully they can pull together and avoid slaughtering each other once the coalition troops leave in 2011.