Is there a trick to writing a for a character who you can't empathise with? For instance, if you wanted a character to do a whole bunch of stupid things, but it is in your nature to try to avoid doing such things, I would imagine your own inclinations would tend to have some affect on your pen, and it would be helpful to try to 'get into character' to write those parts.
Make yourself dislike them, then it gets easy.
I think that on some level you have to find something in each of your characters that is part of you. Even if it is a fairly unpleasant trait which you don't particularly like about yourself, use it to your advantage and write it into the character. Also, try to give your "unsympathetic" characters at least one trait you secretly admire them for. Conversely, always give your "nice" characters at least one of your own flaws.
Quote: Tim Walker @ September 12 2009, 9:36 PM BSTI think that on some level you have to find something in each of your characters that is part of you. Even if it is a fairly unpleasant trait which you don't particularly like about yourself, use it to your advantage and write it into the character. Also, try to give your "unsympathetic" characters at least one trait you secretly admire them for. Conversely, always give your "nice" characters at least one of your own flaws.
How egocentric!
Nice tip, I shall try to employ this in my future efforts.
I find that even if you give an unsympathetic character just one line in your first draft that is really something you might think or say, then it suddenly becomes much easier to write for them. It's weird but I find it works.
Not egocentric, btw.
Every character I've written is an aspect of self or someone I know very well. A glorified or a parodied aspect. Mix 'n' match. But even when writing about other people, I still put my interpretation and spin on what they do or say and also WHY they do or say something. This is a subconscious, or conscious, process because every person you know is a 'black box.' Any attempt to work out what is in their heads is just your spin on it. You can't know and will never know. That person is as distant as the nearest star in the sense of 'knowability'. So everyone writes with a layer of self permeating every aspect of that work. By the nature of being human.
Quote: SlagA @ September 12 2009, 10:02 PM BSTNot egocentric, btw.
Every character I've written is an aspect of self or someone I know very well. A glorified or a parodied aspect. Mix 'n' match. But even when writing about other people, I still put my interpretation and spin on what they do or say and also WHY they do or say something. This is a subconscious, or conscious, process because every person you know is a 'black box.' Any attempt to work out what is in their heads is just your spin on it. You can't know and will never know. That person is as distant as the nearest star in the sense of 'knowability'. So everyone writes with a layer of self permeating every aspect of that work. By the nature of being human.
Egocentrism - the tendency to perceive, understand and interpret the world in terms of the self. It's a term from psychology. I didn't mean it in the egotistical sense and I put a little winky face underneath does that not protect me from such vicious attacks?!
I knew what you meant.
I've written characters that are so completely not like me that I do have to put a little of myself into them, otherwise they just don't work and I sort of end up painting myself into a corner, so to speak.
I am co-writing at present and I find that for the character my co-writer invented, I have to put my own spin on them but this is subsequently edited out the next time he sees it.
Quote: sootyj @ September 12 2009, 9:22 PM BSTMake yourself dislike them, then it gets easy.
this is an interesting point. I have read in quite a few sitcom books (one of them Marc Blake's) that a good starting point for creating characters is to list people you hate. I find the exact opposite is true and that all of the characters I have done that work are based on people I either love or am very fond of, but the characters are still pricks.
Quote: Ronnie Anderson @ September 12 2009, 10:42 PM BSTI am co-writing at present and I find that for the character my co-writer invented, I have to put my own spin on them but this is subsequently edited out the next time he sees it.
this is an interesting point. I have read in quite a few sitcom books (one of them Marc Blake's) that a good starting point for creating characters is to list people you hate. I find the exact opposite is true and that all of the characters I have done that work are based on people I either love or am very fond of, but the characters are still pricks.
Ditto
Pretend you've married him.
Quote: sootyj @ September 12 2009, 9:22 PM BSTMake yourself dislike them, then it gets easy.
In that respect, and considering that everything we write must involve a part of ourselves, do writers with a lot of self-loathing have an advantage?
Nogget, what a brilliant question. Yes I think this is something serious writers have to really think about. To get to that next level of writing, where your characters look really real, you have to dig deeper and think of new ways to do achieve this. I've developed my own way, I personally think it works, but haven't had any real feedback from pros yet. And to answer your last question, well probably I think that does help for certain characters yes, self loathing is not a purely negative thing, in my book, it demonstrates that a writer is thinking at a deep enough level to bother hating themselves and that they appreciate what good acceptable standards are.
Quote: Nogget @ September 13 2009, 7:17 AM BSTIn that respect, and considering that everything we write must involve a part of ourselves, do writers with a lot of self-loathing have an advantage?
I do hope so.