Quote: Scottidog @ August 11 2009, 6:46 PM BSTThese people will always be amongst us in our community, and I think it will only get worse and worse. Scum breed scum! The damage has been done to our society, it's ran on for generations- they breed, and how do you stop them!
Well, by killing their spawn themselves, they've done society a favour!
>
<
I think we should just round them all up, the murderers, rapists, the kiddy fiddlers, the people who don't put their bottles in the Blue bin..
and make them work at 'Lidl'- but they don't get paid, and all the food is free- and we can just shit on the conveyor belt as they're picking up our 'loose apples'...and just throw big 2 litre bottles of Lemon Cordial at them (i don't like lemon) and just generally bully them until they die.
Or just torture them until they die?
The people who carry out this kind of crime have in my view literally forgotten or not learned the basic lessons of being human. I think we should consider teaching them, compulsorily if need be. There's some schemes in this country where troubled families can stay as part of a community for months and learn these skills as part of a community. It works, we just need the will to push it through on a larger scale.
We should not be so quick to hand over money to people with out conditions or expectations.
Quote: Scottidog @ August 11 2009, 6:56 PM BSTThe Goverment has gone and got it self in a whole lot of mess.
Clear all this shit up now, Tories..
Most of this stuff came in with Thatcher under Care in the Community. That said I think in the majority of cases it's a real improvement on what went on before.
Thatcher bless her was really quite radical from a social services point of view.
I sleep easy knowing that these people will be cast into the fiery depths of hell for eternity. How's that for a life sentence? Unless of course they repent... damn you Christians with your get-out clauses.
Quote: sootyj @ August 11 2009, 7:26 PM BSTThe people who carry out this kind of crime have in my view literally forgotten or not learned the basic lessons of being human. I think we should consider teaching them, compulsorily if need be. There's some schemes in this country where troubled families can stay as part of a community for months and learn these skills as part of a community. It works, we just need the will to push it through on a larger scale.
Agreed. Otherwise these cycles just continue to go and on.
Quote: AngieBaby @ August 11 2009, 8:09 PM BSTI sleep easy knowing that these people will be cast into the fiery depths of hell for eternity. How's that for a life sentence? Unless of course they repent... damn you Christians with your get-out clauses.
I don't think they have the brains.
Haven't we as a society failed these people just as much as we have failed Baby P?
Quote: bigfella @ August 11 2009, 8:37 PM BSTI don't think they have the brains.
Haven't we as a society failed these people just as much as we have failed Baby P?
How do you propose that society should have not failed them? I think the reaction of 'society' as shown in the tabloids illustrates that this kind of thing just isn't accepted by the public. It's personal responsibility. (Lack thereof.)
Quote: Godot Taxis @ August 11 2009, 3:34 AM BSTThe answer is not castration, but to stop making these people.
Chemical castration would be a very effective way to stop making more of these people.
Quote: Aaron @ August 11 2009, 8:58 PM BSTHow do you propose that society should have not failed them? I think the reaction of 'society' as shown in the tabloids illustrates that this kind of thing just isn't accepted by the public. It's personal responsibility. (Lack thereof.)
But if people don't know any better, because of the way they were raised, they will often simply not be capable of doing a better job than their parents and so it goes on.
Quote: Aaron @ August 11 2009, 8:58 PM BSTHow do you propose that society should have not failed them? I think the reaction of 'society' as shown in the tabloids illustrates that this kind of thing just isn't accepted by the public. It's personal responsibility. (Lack thereof.)
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ August 11 2009, 9:13 PM BSTBut if people don't know any better, because of the way they were raised, they will often simply not be capable of doing a better job than their parents and so it goes on.
What Dolly said.
Society is a huge on going social contract. We don't rob, steal, rape or cheat because of our place within it. But it's a mutual if we want people not to murder their children we need to work out what we can expect of them and them of us.
In this case a more harsh investigating social services dept could have saved these unfortunate from themselves. A flat, a giro and a payment for a home help (who was a relative), was an inadequate exercise in throwing money.
Maybe with some enforced therapy and monitoring they could have turned their feculent ways around. Or the relationship between the adults could have been broken up or the kids could have just been taken into care.
Quote: sootyj @ August 11 2009, 9:22 PM BSTor the kids could have just been taken into care.
That one. Some acquaintances of mine who fostered abused children used to have constant battles with social services, who were determined to reunite the children with their abusive families, as soon as "it was safe to do so". By families I mean, as often as not, the mother and her latest partner who had abused sexually them. Even just allowing the families to have the kids back for a weekend would result in weeks of behavioural re-education being undone. Teaching a seven year old that she cannot get her own way by being sexually provocative is not something you really want to have to keep on repeating.
Quote: Timbo @ August 11 2009, 9:39 PM BSTThat one. Some acquaintances of mine who fostered abused children used to have constant battles with social services, who were determined to reunite the children with their abusive families, as soon as "it was safe to do so". By families I mean, as often as not, the mother and her latest partner who had abused sexually them. Even just allowing the families to have the kids back for a weekend would result in weeks of behavioural re-education being undone. Teaching a seven year old that she cannot get her own way by being sexually provocative is not something you really want to have to keep on repeating.
The problem is social services as much as anyone is subject to the whims and fashions of government.
Keeping a family together is often the goal and in many cases people get over their problems families can work.
But as you point out it often doesn't work. But the dictats on how care should be provided come from above and can not be defied. A real failure of recent years is the needs of the family are being put over then needs of the child.
Quote: Timbo @ August 11 2009, 9:39 PM BSTThat one. Some acquaintances of mine who fostered abused children used to have constant battles with social services, who were determined to reunite the children with their abusive families, as soon as "it was safe to do so". By families I mean, as often as not, the mother and her latest partner who had abused sexually them. Even just allowing the families to have the kids back for a weekend would result in weeks of behavioural re-education being undone. Teaching a seven year old that she cannot get her own way by being sexually provocative is not something you really want to have to keep on repeating.
There are horror stories of social services taking children away from parents who claim to be innocent, but for children in danger or simply unwanted the earlier they are put into stable, loving homes the better for them and the better for society.
See part the problem is government policy is written by whatever the last disaster was. So after the Orkney disaster there was a real paranoia about taking kids into care and passing judgement.