Quote: Leevil @ July 27 2009, 3:37 PM BSTI really only post my "experimental" or "boredness" sketches on here. I don't really see it as a showcase, more of a place to seek critique (strangely).
What he said.
The standard of writing on this website Page 2
I just don't feel comfortable being brutally honest - either positively or negatively - about someone's work, when they have not had the opportunity to see my work, and hence decide whether they feel I should be considered a trusted opinion. (I will never make producer with this attitude, of course.)
Does it not happen much in Critique then?
Quote: Tim Walker @ July 27 2009, 3:53 PM BSTDoes it not happen much in Critique then?
Occasionally, but then a massive debate starts about what's constructive criticism and what isn't.
Quote: Griff @ July 27 2009, 3:52 PM BSTI like this idea of being brutally positively honest.
I've been brutally honest with people in Critique for months...and then been hung, drawn and quartered for it.
Now it's being applauded?!
FFS. 
Quote: Griff @ July 27 2009, 3:55 PM BSTI'm just not sure exactly what the combination of "brutally" and "positively" means.
I've had a commissioning editor be brutally positively honest about a script of mine once. I found it actually rather intimidating. (She savagely praised my work.)
The trouble is that the last time (I think only the second time ever) I offered a reasoned (brutally negative) opinion on someone's short video pilot, my critcism was dismissed as simply ignorant (not understanding/seeing how funny and subtle it was), which just made me feel "what's the point?" about the whole exercise.
"Brutally honest" presumably means giving your opinion with no regard to the person's feelings.
A bit like you might get from a producer - well the 'brutally' is.
Quote: Tim Walker @ July 27 2009, 4:01 PM BSTI've had a commissioning editor be brutally positively honest about a script of mine once. I found it actually rather intimidating.
The trouble is that the last time (I think only the second time ever) I offered a reasoned (brutally negative) opinion on someone's short video pilot, my critcism was dismissed as simply ignorant (not understanding/seeing how funny and subtle it was), which just made me feel "what's the point?" about the whole exercise.
Yeah, buy wasn't that the one eveyone said was piss-poor but the poster kept defending it to the point of embarrasment?
Anyway, three things:
1. I agree, that if the older hands(who might not put much up for crit) don't crit it can all become a bit of a circle jerk, with everyone saying everything is brilliant. Personally, when it comes to sketches I think I'm better at critting than writing, as they're not what I do, really.
2. I don't think the standard is THAT bad - especially if you filter out the people who are consistantly hopeless ( 25%- 30%, maybe?)
3. Brutal? Well it's easier, and more useful, to be harsh with someone you know's got the talent but isn't quite hitting the mark - then it can really help. If someone's just shit, however, telling them so isn't going to change anything. Perhaps in this case it's worth being gentle.
There is an element of that but some people don't take any sort of criticism very well.
There have been times when I've posted stuff which I quite like but know that the sketch doesn't seem quite right for some reason - and in those cases someone else usually manages to point out what the problem is. So I find critique quite useful from that point of view every now and then.
I don't always have the time to leave much in the way of feedback for others, I tend to do it in batches - get some time and try to give actual constructive feedback on several sketches in one go. Unless someone else has already said what I would have said.
But I think if you have an opinion it is worth giving it, even if you don't post in critique.
Quote: JohnnyD @ July 27 2009, 4:06 PM BST"Brutally honest" presumably means giving your opinion with no regard to the person's feelings.
This is a good thing. It's business.
If I want everything sugar-coated, I'll f**k off to Disneyland.
I'm also rather of the opinion that feedback by-and-large probably leads to some bad feeling leaching into the rest of the site. And I doubt that much of it leads to actual improvements in a member's writing ability, beyond what time and experience would have taught him/her anyway. I'm not saying the whole idea of Critique is a worthless exercise, just that I'm not sure it actually benefits anyone in the long term.
Quote: Griff @ July 27 2009, 4:09 PM BSTI was just wondering why positive feedback would ever be "brutal".
One of my school reports (I forget which subject) said "A. Must try harder."
Perhaps that's what it means?
Quote: Griff @ July 27 2009, 4:09 PM BSTI was just wondering why positive feedback would ever be "brutal".
It was a very poor choice of words and phrasing on my part, Griff.
Criticism justified and accepted.
As a newbie here, Critique is proving quite useful to get me started in the process of recieving unbiased feedback and subsequently making revisions. It has been a comfort to me to know that people think I have written something good, but also useful to understand from another person's perspective what can be changed. For the older, wiser and more successful members, this critiquing comes from their producers, so Critique here isn't any use to them. Maybe Critique would work better if only the more successful members were allowed to give comment. But maybe not.
As to the original question, there is a lot of stuff in there that I don't find funny, but it's all down to opinion. I'm just grateful for having access to something like Critique at all.
All fair points, though the idea of "more successful" writers being the only ones to offer feedback did make me chuckle. Defining who was deemed successful enough would lead to a BCG 100 years war in itself! I don't post, because I do have a number of producers and an agent to read my stuff. However, I don't consider myself successful, nor will I until I've got a strong, objective list of production credits to my name. I am getting where I want to be, but I'm not in the same league as some on this site. (Yet.) If you're getting a lot out of the Critique secion then I'm obviously wrong, and apologise. Best of luck with your writing.