It was a different time back then it was all about the family and with the Krays and the Richardsons you could leave your door open and dry slaps were dished out to people who didn't respect the nighbourhood (or stole all your stuff cause you left the front door open).
So let this charming ol timer out...
Quote: Aaron @ July 1 2009, 8:58 PM BSTWell we're paying anyway, aren't we? Just, right now, we're paying for his accommodation, entertainment, clothing, food and drink as well.
Scrap the HRA.
Ahem-hem...
A legal trainee writes... (whilst a bit squiffy)
Nooooooooooo! ££££s should never be considered. Ever. For instance, say it costs £1000 a day to keep a rapist paedophile in jail - would you agree with that? Well how about £10,000? £100,000? When is it so costly you just let them go, even if you could guarantee they wouldn't re-offend? You can't put a price on justice and although it's tempting, it'll only lead to skewed results, what ever the crime.
There are various theories behind the criminal justice system involving Kant, Benson etc - theories I really ought to know a lot more thoroughly and would probably be able to expound upon were I sober.. But basically you have retribution/vengeance which is seen as a bad thing and we are weak if we give into it, and we also have more cerebral ideas along the lines of the balance between good and bad and atoning for wrongdoings, rehabilitation etc.
Whatever the reasons for keeping Biggs in jail, nobody can be under the illusion he is going to rob another train or whack another driver over the head, but does that mean he should go home? The State will not forget being done over. Given the billions Gordon Brown can magic out of thin air to make everyone feel better, a few grand to make Biggs uncomfortable is easily found and won't affect anyone's tax bill. And don't forget that stealing from the State steals from all of us.
A third of a sentence served is fairly poor, even for todays system. But don't forget he committed his crime in the 1960s, upsetting v morals and incurring a 1960s sentence. Of course that's at odds with today and maybe he wouldn't have recieved that sentence at the age of 79 - but it's his fault he's serving it now instead of in his 40s.
And not only has he never said sorry, but he's said he's proud of his actions and the place in history it has 'earned' him.
And even made a record about it.
Quote: bigfella @ July 1 2009, 10:01 PM BSTAm I right in saying that the great train robbers coshed either the driver or the guard over the head and he was very seriously hurt? Sort of never recover hurt?
Driver: whacked over the head with an iron bar. Returned to work, wasn't ever quite the same again, suffering constant headaches and died a few years after. Not a nice event.
Quote: DaButt @ July 1 2009, 9:33 PM BSTA friend of mine killed a pedestrian while driving drunk and served 30 days in the county jail.
!
Quote: Maurice Minor @ July 1 2009, 11:17 PM BSTAhem-hem...
A legal trainee writes... (whilst a bit squiffy)
Nooooooooooo! ££££s should never be considered. Ever.
I was replying to your raising the issue of money as a point of principle, not using it as an argument myself.
As for the cost of incarcerating a rapist (or indeed any other), that's where my HRA scrappage and return to bread-and-water windowless prisons comes in. 
I'm ambivalent about Biggs' release/detention.
The Great Train Robbery was huge in terms of the haul and admirable in it's execution [with the exception of lamming someone with an iron bar]. The media made the robbery glamorous and thereby afforded the gang celebrity status.
Villains should not become folk heroes, which was reflected in the lengthy sentences handed down.
With regard to Biggs' current condition, I'm not sure compassion comes into it.
The affront of the robbers, in stealing from the state, still rankles in the corridors of power. I believe this, more than anything, determined Jack Straw's decision.
Quote: DaButt @ July 1 2009, 9:33 PM BSTA friend of mine killed a pedestrian while driving drunk and served 30 days in the county jail.
30 days? What the hell? For killing someone because you were driving drunk? I know he's your friend and everything, but that sounds terrible! 30 days?!
He's a violent premeditated criminal who tried to escape justice and never repented. Frankly I'd say give him the birch then the noose.
Otherwise let him die in jail.
7 years for a drunken mistake is harsh but entirely fair.
We need to start making criminal justice a harsh, implacable force of life. Commit a crime get caught and then regret it.
Ronni Biggs is getting all the justice he deserved. I hope Phil Collins makes a mawkish film about his life.
Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2009, 9:34 AM BSTFrankly I'd say give him the birch then the noose.
Well thank goodness you have no say in the matter! The streets of England would be awash with blood!
The old man's done his choky. Let him out.
Quote: Jack Massey @ July 1 2009, 7:08 PM BSTAnyway, the news that really surprised me today is that Ronnie Biggs has been denied parole. Here is a dying man who was shockingly over sentenced anyway and is being denied parole because he refuses to apologise and because he got celebrity status.
Biggs is a twat, put bluntly. A man's death (albeit later) was "just a tap on the head." He lived it up in Rio and took the mick out of our justice system. He even appeared in Sex Pistols vids. Isn't that crime enough?
Quote: SlagA @ July 2 2009, 10:41 AM BSTBiggs is a twat, put bluntly. A man's death (albeit later) was "just a tap on the head." He lived it up in Rio and took the mick out of our justice system. He even appeared in Sex Pistols vids. Isn't that crime enough?
I agree.
"Detectives travelled to Brazil in 1974 in the hope of catching him, but they were thwarted because Biggs by then had his son, Michael, with his Brazilian girlfriend, making him legally untouchable."
Yes, Bigg's son Michael was really wanted! Talk about a child of convenience. What a mug he is (Michael) for supporting him! Not only should criminal Biggs stay locked up - he should be given "a tap on the head" to the 'tune' of The Sex Pistols' "Pretty Vacant" every five minutes until he dies.
You see, it's this kind of sentiment that makes me want to drop virus bombs on most of working class Britain.
Every time there is a high profile murder and the sentence is light, the common man screams 'life should mean life'.
But then these same misguided, knee jerk, Sun reading, potato waffle eating stereotypes immediately contradict themselves by going on about Biggs and the Krays. 'They've done their time, let 'em out'.
Biggs committed a crime and an innoncent man was murdered, the Krays murdered people and terrorised London - 'life should mean life'.
I would release him, pay a mobster to kill him in a drive by shooting and then buy The Sun the next day to see the headlines:
Ronnie Biggs Gets Biggie Smalled.
Biggs Bang Theory.
Biggshot!
Biggs end of.
He'll probably die in jail soon though, another victim of the pandemic but welcome celeb flu.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ July 2 2009, 9:18 AM BST30 days? What the hell? For killing someone because you were driving drunk? I know he's your friend and everything, but that sounds terrible! 30 days?!
He was actually more a friend of a friend.
This was almost 30 years ago and drunk driving was as hot a topic as it is today. It was New Year's Eve and he was so drunk that he didn't remember hitting the guy. When he heard about the hit-and-run death on the news the next day he knew how the damage and blood on his car had appeared. His father turned him in to the police. He was only charged with vehicular manslaughter because they couldn't prove that he was drunk at the time.
The man he killed was the brother of one of his friends and the family didn't want to send the kid to jail because of an accident he couldn't undo. He had already been accepted at a university and had a clean criminal record. They made him serve a month in the county jail and revoked his license for 5 or 10 years.