Anti immigration? Anti Europe? Pro a smaller UK state?
Very similar on the core issues.
N.B. there is a delightful Westminster rumour. That UKIP and BNP leadership met up for a discussion over a possible merger...the police were called...possibility of blows and harsh words being exchanged....
I don't recall UKIP being anti immigration. Certainly not from the same stance or for the same reasons as the BNP are. And any sensible party is anti-EU and for a smaller state.
Quote: Aaron @ September 6 2009, 12:58 PM BSTQuite. Keeping people like the BNP from the public eye only perpetuates the mystique around them, and breeds ignorance to which we're all supposedly against in our objection to them. Giving people a legitimate platform with which to ridicule and make fools of themselves is the best way to combat their ideas. Look at the British media's portrayals of Hitler during the War: not as some kind of evil monster, but of a fool; contempt rather than fear.
Yes, very much indeed, well said Aaron!
http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/226-immigration-ukip-policy-2009
Not as extreme as the BNP, but not far off.
And as for leaving the EU. We'd also have to leave the Economic Market.
Great fun trading with Tonga and Bangladesh.
I don't get it sootyj, I just read through the UKIP immigration policy and it seems perfectly sensible to me.
America and Austrailia have had far harsher immigration laws then that for decades.
I think comparing UKIP to the BNP is a bit of a non-starter and is just leftie propaganda / wishful thinking / scare mongering. The Socialist Worker is always going on about pulling troops from Afghanistan, but I wouldn't suggest that they love Islamic terrorists or are pro-Taliban.
Less hysterics, more perspective please.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ September 6 2009, 9:42 PM BSTI don't get it sootyj, I just read through the UKIP immigration policy and it seems perfectly sensible to me.
America and Austrailia have had far harsher immigration laws then that for decades.
I think comparing UKIP to the BNP is a bit of a non-starter and is just leftie propaganda / wishful thinking / scare mongering. The Socialist Worker is always going on about pulling troops from Afghanistan, but I wouldn't suggest that they love Islamic terrorists or are pro-Taliban.
Less hysterics, more perspective please.
http://bnp.org.uk/policies/immigration/
I'd hardly call my stance hysterical. UKIP has always been far right politics for the middle classes. They're just smart enough to say a 5 year hold (which can be extended), pull out of the EU (where almost all of our immigration comes from) and a set of incredibly tough regulations for any one wanting to come to the UK (which can always be tightened).
It's the same basic message with a slightly nicer twist on it. N.B. have you read the Socialist Worker? Part the reason I don't or Living Marxism is they are avowedly proTaliban and idiotically racist towards America.
The sooner that Nick Griffin is out the EU parliament the better. I can't stand that populist barely repressed nazi.
Apologies sootyj, I have a tendency to tar most lefties with the same brush, I have never read Socialist Worker, but a couple of friends of mine did back in the 'angry teenage years' many moons ago. Of course soon as they started families all that stuff went out the window and they became rampant capitalists.
Though there might be similarities between UKIP / BNP's immigration policy, I would imagine that it's the BNP aping UKIP and not the other way round to make them sound more moderate / sensible.
Either there's an immigration problem in the UK or there isn't. If there is, then the new laws proposed by UKIP will have an impact, if there isn't then the new laws are redundant. It's win-win as far as I'm concerned.
It may not be trendy or right on to voice such an opinion, but it's my perception from living in Hackney that I'm a minority in my own area. (When I say perception, I mean statistical fact). Normally it doesn't bother me, people are people, but I missed my train the other day because some African bloke was trying to barter his season ticket at the window instead of just paying for the damn thing and moving on.
So in short, I'm not racist but I do have an intolerence towards muthaf**kers from backwards cultures coming over here and being twats and making me miss my train.
Immigration is a complex issue. Look at cities with low immigration, they often have the same levels of poverty. It's wealth and power thing, not a race thing. Under labour our immigration laws have got tougher and tougher and achieved precisely nothing. Other than driving the problems further underground.
That said Hackney? You have my sympathy, it literally is an open air mental hospital.
Did you know the UK government has built a prison in Nigeria. So when we arrest Nigerian criminals we can deport them back home. Because we can't send them to conditions worse than they would face here.
Quote: sootyj @ September 6 2009, 9:31 PM BSThttp://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/226-immigration-ukip-policy-2009
Not as extreme as the BNP, but not far off.
There's a big difference between objecting to immigration because "all blacks are evil, unwelcome, unsavoury creatures" (BNP), and the idea that "the country is full" (UKIP). The short-term solutions may be similar, but the diversification of the policy and the exacts of its implementation and future development would be worlds apart.
One is merely a detail. If I get thumped because some one says I'm a smart arse, it hurts as much if I get thumped for disliking Terry and June.
Quote: James Turner @ September 6 2009, 10:13 PM BSTThe sooner that Nick Griffin is out the EU parliament the better. I can't stand that populist barely repressed nazi.
If he's out of the EU then he'll be back here, and you'll see the fat bastard even more.
Quote: sootyj @ September 6 2009, 11:31 PM BSTOne is merely a detail. If I get thumped because some one says I'm a smart arse, it hurts as much if I get thumped for disliking Terry and June.
You have quite a peculiar view of the world, sooty. Quite, quite peculiar indeed.
Simple really. BNP says stop immigration imediately and offer people money to go home. UKIP says freeze immigration then make it as near impossible as possible.
Same result. I worry more about the one that is more persuasively and normatively put.
The simple fact is that this country does not have the infrastructure or economic reserves to sustain the current rates of net immigration (without a serious long-term decline in living standards). This is a debate that all mainstream parties will have to have at some point. Better that it is done by them now with open debate and understanding (yet with firmness and willingness to take tough decisions) than leaving it to become the USP of a far-right movement.
Quote: Tim Walker @ September 7 2009, 12:09 AM BSTThe simple fact is that this country does not have the infrastructure or economic reserves to sustain the current rates of net immigration (without a serious long-term decline in living standards). This is a debate that all mainstream parties will have to have at some point. Better that it is done by them now with open debate and understanding (yet with firmness and willingness to take tough decisions) than leaving it to become the USP of a far-right movement.
Good thing our great grandparents got in early? That said I think we should discourage immigration. Some poor sap coming all the way from China or Afghanistan and getting into debt. Only to find no benefits or housing and not enough to live on from working is a profound failure. Our government should finally take some responsibility and sell the message that there are no streets of gold in the UK.