I'm not sure if this has been said prior to this drunk-and-can't-be-arsed-to-go-to-bed-because-my-girlfriend-is-away-tonight message, but I get really annoyed by the fact that Shakespeare is credited with 'inventing' so many words and phrases. As far as I can see, and most scholars concur, he was someone who wrote plays in West Midlands dialect at around about the same time that was becoming the commom parlance in England (I know this is a bit wishy-washy, to say the least, but bear with me) but why on earth does he seem to get credit for inventing virtually every single word or phrase? I remember reading an interview with the (ultra-pretentious) Martin Amis and he was pontificating at length about how he overheard a mum say to her child 'to get a wriggle on' and (I parphrase, but not by much) what a wonderfully, powerfully evocative phrase that was. My mum said that to me at least twenty years before. Shakespeare's plays may well be recordings of what people around him said, but please, for the love of whatever God or gods you may or may not believe in, let's not credit one man with inventing the bloody English language.
William Shakespeare - Genius or twat? Page 5
Not even Chaucer?
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 16 2009, 3:44 AM BSTNot even Chaucer?
Don't forget John Wycliffe (same vintage as Chaucer), who was the first person to translate the Bible into common (of the day) English, using - and perhaps popularising - certain phrases that remain common to this day.
Quote: Rob H @ May 16 2009, 3:41 AM BSTShakespeare's plays may well be recordings of what people around him said, but please, for the love of whatever God or gods you may or may not believe in, let's not credit one man with inventing the bloody English language.
I rather think that Shakespeare's genius laid in his turn of phrase than in his use of idiom. There is a significant distinction.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ May 12 2009, 12:38 PM BSTHe used stories that already existed. He was a genius with language though. And I do think he was just one person. One of the biggest arguments against him writing all the works attributed to him was that Shakespeare was 'just' a grammar school kid and not an aristo. Pah!
Yes that gets my goat as well.
Quote: Timbo @ May 16 2009, 2:33 PM BSTI rather think that Shakespeare's genius laid in his turn of phrase than in his use of idiom. There is a significant distinction.
A distinction I'm aware of. My issue lies not with Shakespeare himself, but with people who say Shakespeare invented thousands of words of the English language whereas they may well be simply the first recorded instance. There is also a significant distinction.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ May 16 2009, 3:44 AM BSTNot even Chaucer?
Chaucer does not bloody well write in English, and if he does, then it's run a marathon to get to what it's like now. I know it's Old English, so technically we only speak a development now, but after 9 months of The Wife of Bath gibbering on about her "queynte", it's all still rubbish until it's translated to within an inch of its life.
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ May 16 2009, 3:24 PM BSTChaucer does not bloody well write in English, and if he does, then it's run a marathon to get to what it's like now. I know it's Old English, so technically we only speak a development now, but after 9 months of The Wife of Bath gibbering on about her "queynte", it's all still rubbish until it's translated to within an inch of its life.
But it did mean my old English teacher said 'c**t' in a lesson. Ah, the best days of your life...
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ May 16 2009, 3:24 PM BSTChaucer does not bloody well write in English, and if he does, then it's run a marathon to get to what it's like now. I know it's Old English, so technically we only speak a development now, but after 9 months of The Wife of Bath gibbering on about her "queynte", it's all still rubbish until it's translated to within an inch of its life.
Still rubbish even then.
Quote: Rob H @ May 16 2009, 3:32 PM BSTBut it did mean my old English teacher said 'c**t' in a lesson. Ah, the best days of your life...
*shudders* It meant my English teacher said "She'll do whatever she f**king has to, to keep her c**t wet."
Oh. My. God.
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ May 16 2009, 3:34 PM BST*shudders* It meant my English teacher said "She'll do whatever she f**king has to, to keep her c**t wet."
That's. Just. Wrong.
Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ May 16 2009, 3:34 PM BST*shudders* It meant my English teacher said "She'll do whatever she f**king has to, to keep her c**t wet."
And that's why Chaucer roxors!
Chaucer is credited to have written the first popular works in old English, quite punk rock considering that the aristocracy and the church demanded that everything else was written in French or Latin at that time.
Yeah, it's tough to get through, but his use of language and story telling helped to define the way we speak now and created our national identity.
If it hadn't been for Chaucer, Aaron would be getting angry correcting our bad French or our misuse of 'carpe diem' and 'ando domini'.
He should at least stop creating characters who make essays very awful, as they're usually contradictions. "She's like this...On the other hand, she couldn't be more different."
No offence Scats, but if the essay is about a female, then writing 'She's like this...On the other hand, she couldn't be more different'. Then that is totally accurate.
Okay, not unlikely, but I would kind of resent being compared to *this* woman.